Just in - court blocks rule allowing CCW in National Parks - Page 6

Just in - court blocks rule allowing CCW in National Parks

This is a discussion on Just in - court blocks rule allowing CCW in National Parks within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think someone above touched on something interesting. Is it within the scope of the lawsuit for the judge to question why they changed the ...

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Thread: Just in - court blocks rule allowing CCW in National Parks

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    I think someone above touched on something interesting. Is it within the scope of the lawsuit for the judge to question why they changed the rule? I do agree that's an administrative decision, not a judicial one. Unless environmental impact was argued as a reason FOR the ban before it would seem like there just might be a teensy bit of wiggle room to say the judge exceeded her authority.

    All in all, it's still a mess.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.


  2. #77
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    More erosion of our rights

    Drinking a cup of coffee this morning preparing to go to my CCW class I decided to catch up on the news. I found this disappointing story washingtonpost.com concerning the right to carry in state parks. Seems a judge has decided to block a rule permitting conceal carry in U.S. Parks. Friends there is a lot of fear out their about where our great nation is heading. Evidence in the difficulty to purchase ammo and the increase sale of handguns. God help us all!!!
    "Nobody loves me but my momma, and she could be jivin too"

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  3. #78
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    What a crock of 'toro feces'...
    What environmental impact?
    Judges have way too much power...they seem to be able to overrule even the vote of the people......not in this case, but others.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  4. #79
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    The two-legged predatory wildlife are the only animials being protected.

    "...runs the risk of increased poaching and danger to park visitors...."

    Law-abiding, permit carrying visitors are NOT going to be "poaching" wildlife.



    AND......Welcometo the fourm punchdog!
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    Greetings and Welcome from Fayetteville, NC!!!

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  6. #81
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    Woke up to find this in my e-mail this morning and now i'm po'ed.
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  7. #82
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    The two-legged predatory wildlife are the only animials being protected.
    As we all suppose, restricting upstanding citizens from carrying firearms into these areas wouldn't be markedly different from allowing it. There would be no change in threat to any animals. It's the illegal, criminal use of firearms, of course, that is the threat.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  8. #83
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    I don't understand how a judge can change a federal ruling on a whim.

    Or maybe I don't want to understand ...

    All the sh...t that's flying around with the demil brass, the FFDO program, etc it seems the dem-libs are throwing stuff around; if it sticks it stays if not try again next time !!!

    A few weeks ago a nice outdoor range around here has been closed - temporarily ??? - for code violations

    It is not going to be fun or easy.
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  9. #84
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    I expected the NRA to appeal this crap. By the way, Hilary Clinton appointed the judge that made this ruling. Obama is also trying to disarm our commercial pilots.
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  10. #85
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    As I am trying to read all the post, I have to give up, because I am running out of duct tape to wrap around my head to keep it from exploding!!!

    But, let say if it is an environmental concern, well, should not the park rangers also be stripped of their weapons..... Don't their weapons pose the same "environmental" threat as ours????

    While I am not a rocket scientist, one would have to think that the vehicle you drive to the park while carrying your CCW would have a far grater impact on the environment than the gun you have on your side.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  11. #86
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    I expect the current mood at DOI is that they are glad to see the CC rule die. I think that they did not vigorously try to defend the rule.

    The judges concern about what is different that makes it ok to change the law may have been addressed.

    DOI could have argued that since the original ban that 48 States have licensed XX hundred thousand, however many CCWs there are, with standards that show that there would not be the negative impact on the wildlife that DOI was concerned about during the original implementation of the rule. Furthermore, experience from the last ~15 years show that when licensees use their handguns for SD, they rarely have to fire them and do not contribute to an environmental lead problem.

    I do not know the exact dates and numbers, but such an argument may have been helpful.

    Bottom Line: Great topic to talk about. We need a place to vent. The reality is sinking in. Brady won this one. We have an uphill fight to get it back. The first rule is a gun fight is “Never Give UP.” We will not give up because we lose one round.

  12. #87
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    Black PR

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    I think someone above touched on something interesting. Is it within the scope of the lawsuit for the judge to question why they changed the rule? I do agree that's an administrative decision, not a judicial one. Unless environmental impact was argued as a reason FOR the ban before it would seem like there just might be a teensy bit of wiggle room to say the judge exceeded her authority.

    All in all, it's still a mess.
    I think you articulated what I was trying to say. The public policy issue with regard to public safety may have been there the first time around, but was there really an environmental issue raised for the ban to start with?

    And, a legislative process can change a law--a regulatory agency can change a regulation. It isn't the judiciary's function to determine if they have a good reason for doing so--only that the new rule doesn't conflict with other law and was passed in accordance with procedures for making regulations.

    I can easily see where briefs suggesting widespread use of guns for sd might have influenced a judge's view of the public policy aspect of things, but environment impacts? That is bizarre. Someone would have to have quite an imagination to perceive of cc as having an environmental impact particularly if hunting and target practice are specifically prohibited within the park.

  13. #88
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainer23 View Post
    Furthermore, experience from the last ~15 years show that when licensees use their handguns for SD, they rarely have to fire them and do not contribute to an environmental lead problem.
    Again - the arguement has NOTHING to do with LEAD. The arguement has to do with people who wrote in admitting they want the ability to defend themselves from angry bears, charging elk, and hungry mountain lions. If people defend themselves from these animals, then there is SOME environmental impact and NO EIS was done to show how 'negligable' the affects on the environment would be.

    That's the arguement, not saying I agree with it. but it supports the park rangers position that the animals lives are more important than those of people. They've worried the whole time that 'trigger happy' visiters would get easily scared and start blasting animals in self defense.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  14. #89
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    What about the box of lead pencils I have in my truck?....what's the impact of me leaving them in the park?....about zero...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  15. #90
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Not about lead
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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