More NY double speak.........is that weapon "unloaded"...maybe not??? - Page 2

More NY double speak.........is that weapon "unloaded"...maybe not???

This is a discussion on More NY double speak.........is that weapon "unloaded"...maybe not??? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm A "loaded" firearm is to be any firearm that has ammunition also in the control of the person carrying that firearm, ...

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Thread: More NY double speak.........is that weapon "unloaded"...maybe not???

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    A "loaded" firearm is to be any firearm that has ammunition also in the control of the person carrying that firearm, even if it's not loaded. Beautimus.

    New York: off the list of places to visit.
    I see sexual assault cases in New Yorks future. NY guys will be arrested left and right, not because they did anything but just because they have a pecker.

    "Judge but I didn't do anything, no but you could have"

    I think IL and NY are related because of stupid politicians that make stupid laws like this.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippy View Post
    I have been saying that for years.....If only we could get one big quake to take out NYC and CA all in one swoop we would be set!
    My thinking exactly.

  3. #18
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Who cares? I think its pretty simple. If you don't have a license, you'd better not even own a gun. End of story. Who cares about the semantics of an illegal weapon? Loaded or unloaded, its still illegal.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Who cares? I think its pretty simple. If you don't have a license, you'd better not even own a gun. End of story. Who cares about the semantics of an illegal weapon? Loaded or unloaded, its still illegal.

    uuum, you should care because this also includes long guns?

    So if your out Pheasant Hunting and you put your shotgun on the back seat of your car/truck with the action open, but you left a couple of cartridges in your pocket.

    NYS says that the shotgun IS LOADED and you could be arrested
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  5. #20
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    uuum, you should care because this also includes long guns?

    So if your out Pheasant Hunting and you put your shotgun on the back seat of your car/truck with the action open, but you left a couple of cartridges in your pocket.

    NYS says that the shotgun IS LOADED and you could be arrested
    Doesn't the article say "illegally possessed" weapons? If you are out hunting your gun is not illegally possessed.

  6. #21
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Doesn't the article say "illegally possessed" weapons? If you are out hunting your gun is not illegally possessed.
    The article says nothing about hunting. It says "CPW" or Criminally Possessed Weapons. People walk around all hunting season with loaded guns here in Upstate NY, and I'm sure all those guns are loaded.

    I do not see anywhere in this article where it says LEGALLY possessed guns. And if you are walking and/or driving around with your LEGALLY licensed rifle this does not apply. Nor does it apply to your legally possessed handguns.

    This article is a semantic argument about criminally held guns.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Doesn't the article say "illegally possessed" weapons? If you are out hunting your gun is not illegally possessed.
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    The article says nothing about hunting. It says "CPW" or Criminally Possessed Weapons. People walk around all hunting season with loaded guns here in Upstate NY, and I'm sure all those guns are loaded.

    I do not see anywhere in this article where it says LEGALLY possessed guns. And if you are walking and/or driving around with your LEGALLY licensed rifle this does not apply. Nor does it apply to your legally possessed handguns.

    This article is a semantic argument about criminally held guns.
    Here, re-read the article. It makes NO REFERENCE to "Legal" or "Illegal". It just says "firearm".
    My reference to hunting was simply to point out that if you were out doing something LEGAL, and then proceed home with the firearm UNLOADED in your car, and you still had the ammunition on you, according to NYS law you could be in possession of a loaded firearm Transporting a loaded firearm in your vehicle is illegal in NYS. Therefore having a shotgun in your vehicle, when you have the ammo, could be construed as "being in possession of a loaded firearm"

    However, if one possess a loaded firearm outside their home or business, the charge is CPW 2nd, a “C” felony which carries a mandatory minimum 3 year to a maximum 15 years in state prison. [See PL 265.03(3); PL 70.02(3)(b)]. Therefore, if you possess an operable firearm outside your home or place of business, the difference between facing an “A” misdemeanor (CPW 4th) which carries up to one year in jail with no mandatory minimum (which means probation is possible) and the “C” felony (CPW 2nd) which carries a mandatory minimum of 3 years in state prison has everything to do with whether the firearm was loaded.

    Here’s the problem. Your unloaded gun might be considered loaded under New York law. Under the Penal Law, a “Loaded firearm” is defined as any firearm actually loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses ammunition for that firearm. [See PL 265.00(15) for the exact definition of “loaded firearm”]. Therefore, the term loaded firearm means not only a truly loaded firearm but also the contemporaneous possession of an unloaded firearm and ammunition for that firearm. Accordingly, under the law of New York State, an unloaded firearm may actually be considered a loaded firearm.
    The simple fact that you have a firearm AND THE AMMUNITION, for that firearm, according to the article and NYS law, could mean you HAVE A LOADED firearm.
    Last edited by Jmac00; April 9th, 2009 at 12:37 PM. Reason: clarification
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  8. #23
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    Here, re-read the article. It makes NO REFERENCE to "Legal" or "Illegal". It just says "firearm".
    My reference to hunting was simply to point out that if you were out doing something LEGAL, and then proceed home with the firearm UNLOADED in your car, and you still had the ammunition on you, according to NYS law you could be in possession of a loaded firearm Transporting a loaded firearm in your vehicle is illegal in NYS. Therefore having a shotgun in your vehicle, when you have the ammo, could be construed as "being in possession of a loaded firearm"



    The simple fact that you have a firearm AND THE AMMUNITION, for that firearm, according to the article and NYS law, could mean you HAVE A LOADED firearm.
    Apparently this is even more confusing than I thought. When you read the article is says with regard to "CPW". So I took that as meaning if you are in fact possessing a weapon "criminally" .

    Now to me, if you are "criminally" possessing a gun than it cannot be legal. Apparently I'm going to have to hire a lawyer to explain it to me because I'm still not understanding.


  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Let me explain this way:

    Under New York law, the severity of a Criminal Possession of a Weapon charge dealing with a firearm can hinge on whether the firearm was loaded or not
    What they mean is this: If you legally own a firearm ( like said, if you were out hunting Turkey or something) and you put your shotgun on your back seat of your car UNLOADED and you were driving home. But you had the ammo with you, according to NYS law, you could be in CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A LOADED FIREARM.

    because it is ILLEGAL to transport a LOADED firearm in NYS, now you could be charged with a crime.

    Does that explain it better
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  10. #25
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    Let me explain this way:



    What they mean is this: If you legally own a firearm ( like said, if you were out hunting Turkey or something) and you put your shotgun on your back seat of your car UNLOADED and you were driving home. But you had the ammo with you, according to NYS law, you could be in CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A LOADED FIREARM.

    because it is ILLEGAL to transport a LOADED firearm in NYS, now you could be charged with a crime.

    Does that explain it better
    OK I understand it how you explain it, but that is your interpretation of the law. You are probably right on the money.

    But I'm saying that the interpretation can be taken two ways. By saying it is the "degree" or "severity" of the original crime of criminal possession, they are not saying "legally" possessed weapon.

    See what I'm saying? I'm not arguing with you because you are probably correct. I'm just saying it is so poorly written that it is open for interpretation.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    OK I understand it how you explain it, but that is your interpretation of the law. You are probably right on the money.

    But I'm saying that the interpretation can be taken two ways. By saying it is the "degree" or "severity" of the original crime of criminal possession, they are not saying "legally" possessed weapon.

    See what I'm saying? I'm not arguing with you because you are probably correct. I'm just saying it is so poorly written that it is open for interpretation.
    ya, I see what your saying, welcome to NY, the land of confusion

    I swear those idiots in Albany do this stuff on purpose.

    The best way to avoid ANY PROBLEM with transporting a weapon through or in and around NYS is to follow the federal statute, put the gun in a LOCKED CASE, and put the ammo in the trunk or out of the vehicles occupants reach. then Law enforcement has no choice.......it's probably a good idea to carry a copy of the Federal Statute with you
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Their legislators have nothing better to do then come up with crap like this. What a waste of tax payer money. I wonder why so many crime shows are about New York City.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    With respect to handguns, if you possess a handgun and you don't have a license you are commiting the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon regardless of whether the firearm is loaded or unloaded.

    If you have a NYS pistol license it doesn't matter if the firearm is loaded, regardless of the definition of loaded being used, you are not in criminal possession of a weapon. You are authorized to carry a loaded firearm.

    You cannot legally be in possession of a firearm (handgun) if you don't have a pistol license. In those cases the issue of whether the handgun is loaded using the broad definition (ammunition in the firearm or anywhere in the vehicle) is important with respect to the charge you will face.
    Last edited by 2edgesword; April 20th, 2009 at 01:12 PM.

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