Nordyke 9th Circuit opinion presumably imminent - Page 3

Nordyke 9th Circuit opinion presumably imminent

This is a discussion on Nordyke 9th Circuit opinion presumably imminent within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mlr1m The government was never supposed to be able to just take power on itself the way it does now. We have ...

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Thread: Nordyke 9th Circuit opinion presumably imminent

  1. #31
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    Uninformed opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The government was never supposed to be able to just take power on itself the way it does now. We have courts that impose taxes.

    Michael
    No way. At the Federal level, only Congress can impose taxes and the legislation imposing taxes must originate in The House of Representatives. That is why it is so silly when folks come here or go to Tea Parties to complain of taxation without representation. Taxation flows from The House, and the House members are those closest to the people. You or anyone can easily make an appointment to visit with your representative's staff to voice an opinion. You are free to write to them or call them, and if you are a little inquisitive and active, can probably find an open forum at which you can actually meet your representative, shake hands, and speak.

    The courts do not as you wrote, impose taxes. They can fine the heck out of you when you break the law, and are punished for breaking the law, but that isn't the same thing as taxes.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No way. At the Federal level, only Congress can impose taxes and the legislation imposing taxes must originate in The House of Representatives. That is why it is so silly when folks come here or go to Tea Parties to complain of taxation without representation. Taxation flows from The House, and the House members are those closest to the people. You or anyone can easily make an appointment to visit with your representative's staff to voice an opinion. You are free to write to them or call them, and if you are a little inquisitive and active, can probably find an open forum at which you can actually meet your representative, shake hands, and speak.

    The courts do not as you wrote, impose taxes. They can fine the heck out of you when you break the law, and are punished for breaking the law, but that isn't the same thing as taxes.

    Looks like that process works pretty well too...
    Yep, those rep guys are all ears.
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  3. #33
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    So you want to undo the constitution?

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Looks like that process works pretty well too...
    Yep, those rep guys are all ears.
    So what is your solution? Do you want to undo the constitution?

    Where would you put the decisions on Federal tax revenue ?

    Fact is, the people decided the issue when the states ratified the constitutional amendment allowing collection of an income tax.

    It isn't as if the taxation is in any way unconstitutional or unlawful. We (our predecessors on this continent) voted for it. We gave our government that power so that it would have the revenue to do the things it needs to do. [We can of course argue over what it should be doing. ]

    Frankly aside from the fact that it is factually incorrect to state that the courts impose taxes *a remark within an earlier post in this thread* a great many taxes are imposed locally (by your neighbors), and are very very burdensome.

    Let's see: Depending on where you live, you pay

    State Income Taxes

    City Income Taxes

    Property Taxes- state, school district, municipality, perhaps special district taxes of one sort or another

    Vehicle Registration Fees

    Various user fees

    Sales taxes

    Most states have no right to throw stones at Federal taxation because they are squandering the local tax revenue at least as badly as Uncle does. My property tax is 40% of my Federal Income tax. My state's sales tax makes my state taxation at least as burdensome in total as the Federal Taxation.

    Someone your age and mine, is now receiving the benefits of a lifetime of contributions to both Social Security and Medicare.

    Which of these do you want to give up?

  4. #34
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    So SelfDefense if not all opinions are venerable etc. and we are to assume that today's court is no smarter or altruistic or honorable than previous courts, who should decide what is "bad law" and should be modified or overturned? Just because someone decades ago said something is "settled law" does that necessarily mean it is good law?
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  5. #35
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    Just got word that the 9th Circuit incorporate 2nd amendment...

    Of Arms and the Law: Nordyke v. King 9th Cir. incorporates 2nd

  6. #36
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    You can find the text of the decision here...
    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...20/0715763.pdf

    "We are therefore persuaded that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth
    Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment and applies it against the states and local governments."

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No way. At the Federal level, only Congress can impose taxes and the legislation imposing taxes must originate in The House of Representatives. That is why it is so silly when folks come here or go to Tea Parties to complain of taxation without representation. Taxation flows from The House, and the House members are those closest to the people. You or anyone can easily make an appointment to visit with your representative's staff to voice an opinion. You are free to write to them or call them, and if you are a little inquisitive and active, can probably find an open forum at which you can actually meet your representative, shake hands, and speak.

    The courts do not as you wrote, impose taxes. They can fine the heck out of you when you break the law, and are punished for breaking the law, but that isn't the same thing as taxes.
    FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment: Annotations pg. 25 of 40

    The broad scope of federal courts' remedial powers was more recently reaffirmed in Missouri v. Jenkins. 62 There the Court ruled that a federal district court has the power to order local authorities to impose a tax increase in order to pay to remedy a constitutional violation, and if necessary may enjoin operation of state laws prohibiting such tax increases.

    I guess they are not actually imposing a tax. They are only forcing someone else to do it. Somewhat like the Congress does when they force the states to enact laws.

    Michael

  8. #38
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    mlr1m--courts and taxation off topic

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The broad scope of federal courts' remedial powers was more recently reaffirmed in Missouri v. Jenkins. 62 There the Court ruled that a federal district court has the power to order local authorities to impose a tax increase in order to pay to remedy a constitutional violation, and if necessary may enjoin operation of state laws prohibiting such tax increases.

    I guess they are not actually imposing a tax. They are only forcing someone else to do it. Somewhat like the Congress does when they force the states to enact laws.

    Michael
    All that is saying is that when a local government screws up, the courts can compel them to pay the damages, even if that mean raising taxes to get the money to pay.

    Yes, in a way it is imposing taxes, but quite indirectly and only because the good ole boys did something (of failed to do something) they were required to do.

    I understand what you are saying, but such court ordered payments aren't the reason we all pay lots of taxes.

    Don't know about where you live, but around here our local school district squanders a huge amount on athletics programs. Our city has lovely parks, so I don't know if I would call that squandering of money, but the Parks and Recreation Dept. has a pretty hefty budget.

    And then they squander money on needless litigation. Our city can't get along with its neighbor; and both routinely litigate all manner of stuff.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that squandering money isn't something only the Feds do. I think it is at least as prevalent a practice at the local level. And moreover, one guys squandering is another's essential service. That's why we have representatives who make these decisions.

    Now, back to Nordyke.....

  9. #39
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  10. #40
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    Alright, I like the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals---my kind of guys. I don't know why the discussion in http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...es-merged.html wasn't merged to this thread, but it's great news.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    All that is saying is that when a local government screws up, the courts can compel them to pay the damages, even if that mean raising taxes to get the money to pay.

    Yes, in a way it is imposing taxes, but quite indirectly and only because the good ole boys did something (of failed to do something) they were required to do.

    I understand what you are saying, but such court ordered payments aren't the reason we all pay lots of taxes.

    Don't know about where you live, but around here our local school district squanders a huge amount on athletics programs. Our city has lovely parks, so I don't know if I would call that squandering of money, but the Parks and Recreation Dept. has a pretty hefty budget.

    And then they squander money on needless litigation. Our city can't get along with its neighbor; and both routinely litigate all manner of stuff.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that squandering money isn't something only the Feds do. I think it is at least as prevalent a practice at the local level. And moreover, one guys squandering is another's essential service. That's why we have representatives who make these decisions.

    Now, back to Nordyke.....
    Even if it is a small percentage its wrong. WE gave congress the power of taxation. Who gave the courts the power? They gave it to themselves. One court ruled that a lower court could impose taxes.
    What hat did they pull that out of? It sure wasnt the constitution.

    We let it happen because it suits some of us. Congress won' do their jobs so we ask the courts to do it. I'm just saying that if the government gets it power from us through the constitution , where is it that the courts found that power? Where did they find the power to create laws?

    Michael

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