Warning: it is NOT legal to have a gun in a vehicle on school property in TN

Warning: it is NOT legal to have a gun in a vehicle on school property in TN

This is a discussion on Warning: it is NOT legal to have a gun in a vehicle on school property in TN within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is so important, I wanted to post this separately from the other post I started on the subject, because many believe, as I myself ...

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Thread: Warning: it is NOT legal to have a gun in a vehicle on school property in TN

  1. #1
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    Warning: it is NOT legal to have a gun in a vehicle on school property in TN

    This is so important, I wanted to post this separately from the other post I started on the subject, because many believe, as I myself did that Part C, discussed in the other thread allows a person to carry a gun in a vehicle on school property. Here is John Harris's reponse to my post about this on the TFA website:

    "The entire school grounds issue is poorly written and we have been trying to change it now for 15 years.

    The problem arises under the distinction(s) if any between 39-17-1309 subsections B and C. B is almost always applied by law enforcement and DA's to bolster the position that knowing possession on school grounds, even in a car, is a felony. C has, in my experience, only been used when a firearm is discovered in a vehicle and law enforcement believes that at the time the driver was unaware that it was in the vehicle."


    This has some serious implications. One is it may mean that even if you have an unloaded gun in the trunk, you are still knowingly bringing a gun on school property.

    So contrary to what logic and reason may imply and how part C reads to you, it is illegal to knowingly carry a gun in a vehicle on school property in Tennessee.

    John is an attorney, a CCW instructor, and unfortunately for some of us, knows how the law is being applied.

    Well there MAY be one exception: if you are delivering or picking up, it would appear that you can have a gun in the car. But be aware, it may have to be in an 'unreachable' location, such as the trunk or else it may be considered 'in possession of' or some other ambiguous interpretation.
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    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    It is important to know - because quite often your vehicle will be on school property if you have to pick up your kids.

    Texas Law is similar for non-chl holders. For permit holders property was redefined to include only structures (not the road and parking lots)
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    The only state that I am aware of that specifically addressed and expressly _allows_ this type of action by non-LEO civilians toward firearms in specific be they kept or carried on person or within their vehicle is Virginia.

    - Janq
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    You need to ask your reps to allow an exception like we in Okla have. You may carry in your car while picking your children up from school. You must remain in your car.

    Michael

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    Mlr1m,
    We do have that exception.

    The problem is say you had to travel 100 miles to attend a school event, say a baseball game, and hence you would have to leave your car. You would either have to travel 100 miles (200 round trip) unarmed because you can't knowingly have a gun unloaded and locked in the trunk of your car and drive your car on school property.

    The only other choice is to carry a gun with you on the trip and break the law when you get to the school. Of course one option would be to try to park off school property and walk to the event - unarmed of course.
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    Change in TN Law and Attorney General Opinion

    This seems to have changed...

    According to this opinion from the Tennessee Attorney General:

    http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2013/op13-15.pdf

    "...if enacted, SB142 would authorize a handgun carry
    permit holder to transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder’s
    vehicle while in a parking area on school property, thereby adding another exception to the
    current exceptions listed in Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309."

    "If enacted, SB142 as currently proposed would allow “the holder of a valid handgun
    carry permit recognized in Tennessee” to transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in
    the permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle while the permit holder is on or utilizing any
    public or private parking area if:
    (1) The permit holder’s vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be;
    and
    (2) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the vehicle:
    (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in
    the motor vehicle; or
    (B) Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the
    trunk,
    glove box, or interior of the person’s privately owned motor vehicle or a
    container securely affixed to such vehicle if the permit holder is not in the
    vehicle."

    SB 142 (see full text:http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/108/Bill/SB0142.pdf), the bill referenced in the opinion, took effect on 07/01/2013 according to http://http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/ap...lNumber=SB0142

    Although this does NOT protect you from termination if your employer has a policy against doing so:
    http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2013/op13-41.pdf

    I am not a lawyer I just looked this up online, check my sources and if you find any issues or discrepancies please post them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    You need to ask your reps to allow an exception like we in Okla have. You may carry in your car while picking your children up from school. You must remain in your car.

    Michael
    I like Kansas better...... If you have a CC license, you can carry anywhere on school grounds, and they cannot prohibit it, they can ONLY put a no-gun sign on the doors of buidlngs ..... and then , it's not a State crime if you carry past the sign. Now, carrying past the sign might be a Federal one, that's in question ..... but would apply only if it was posted with the AG approved signage.


    The "no crime" part, came into being last year. Prior to that, it was legal if not posted.... and I carried in the school all of the time, as none of the buildings were posted. During one school play in the Elementary School I was talking to a local LEO who's son and my grandson are good buddies, and he leaned over and told me..... "well, if anything ever happens .... it looks like it would be up to you and I to stop them" & he laughed. He never asked if I was carrying.... he just assumed I must be, and I was.

    And the result.... nothing has ever occurred on the part of any cc holder that was negative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamas567 View Post
    This seems to have changed...

    According to this opinion from the Tennessee Attorney General:

    http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2013/op13-15.pdf

    "...if enacted, SB142 would authorize a handgun carry
    permit holder to transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder’s
    vehicle while in a parking area on school property, thereby adding another exception to the
    current exceptions listed in Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309."

    "If enacted, SB142 as currently proposed would allow “the holder of a valid handgun
    carry permit recognized in Tennessee” to transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in
    the permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle while the permit holder is on or utilizing any
    public or private parking area if:
    (1) The permit holder’s vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be;
    and
    (2) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the vehicle:
    (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in
    the motor vehicle; or
    (B) Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the
    trunk,
    glove box, or interior of the person’s privately owned motor vehicle or a
    container securely affixed to such vehicle if the permit holder is not in the
    vehicle."

    SB 142 (see full text:http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/108/Bill/SB0142.pdf), the bill referenced in the opinion, took effect on 07/01/2013 according to http://http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/ap...lNumber=SB0142

    Although this does NOT protect you from termination if your employer has a policy against doing so:
    http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2013/op13-41.pdf

    I am not a lawyer I just looked this up online, check my sources and if you find any issues or discrepancies please post them.
    Thanks for the update. I frequently pick my granddaughter up at school, so this has direct bearing on me when visiting TN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamas567 View Post
    This seems to have changed...

    According to this opinion from the Tennessee Attorney General:

    http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2013/op13-15.pdf
    Yeah, that was enacted after I posted this. The bill you referenced is commonly referred to as the parking lot bill and it not only applies to schools, but to public and private businesses. What the bill does is removes the criminality of having a gun in a parked vehicle on school property.

    However, as you pointed out, there is a caveat, two in fact. One, the business, institute, whatever still has the right to declare their properties as posted. The Tennessee Board of Regents has made it clear that guns are not allowed on school properties, and that was one of the shortcomings of the parking lot bill, it did not protect a person against actions of the employer.

    But, according to written instructions from the TBR, if a gun is discovered in a vehicle, the owner should be asked to remove the vehicle from the property. So that's not bad at all for schools. But, still, individual schools could have penalties that could be invoked against an employee of the school.

    The second caveat of the bill is it clearly states in his or her private car (paraphrased). Hence if I had a loaner car while my car was in the shop, I may not be covered by this bill since it is not technically my private car. Although the court could view a loaner car as private as opposed to a state owned vehicle. Then again...
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    In NC we can have a gun on school property but it must remain locked in car. When picking up or dropping off doors must remain locked until child is entering/exiting car.

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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    The only state that I am aware of that specifically addressed and expressly _allows_ this type of action by non-LEO civilians toward firearms in specific be they kept or carried on person or within their vehicle is Virginia.

    - Janq
    Not correct - Ky has that clearly stated by statute
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    Georgia has it too! ...and according to the new so-called "guns everywhere" law (I've confirmed this with my school SRO), if a teacher has a gun in their car and an active shooter scenario goes down, they have the right to retrieve their weapon and defend themselves! Obviously this is still a little gray and Georgia Carry is telling members to "stand by" until it is more clearly defined.

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    I'm glad this thread came up. While I don't have kids in TN schools, I do have to go to a school to vote next month. I normally OC my S&W 329PD. In this case, I'll have to leave in my truck, but it at least appears to be legal to do that while I vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    I'm glad this thread came up. While I don't have kids in TN schools, I do have to go to a school to vote next month. I normally OC my S&W 329PD. In this case, I'll have to leave in my truck, but it at least appears to be legal to do that while I vote.
    I think Tennessee's law states that a firearm cannot be within a certain distance of a voting place???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass View Post
    In NC we can have a gun on school property but it must remain locked in car. When picking up or dropping off doors must remain locked until child is entering/exiting car.
    I wish they would have gone one step further, as the law requires that the gun be "in a closed compartment" such as the glove compartment, center console, etc. So the person that carries must take their gun off their person (before driving onto school property) and put it in "a closed compartment" when dropping off or picking up kids in the car riders line.

    This causes unnecessary handling of the firearm and presents an opportunity for a ND, or even a vehicle accident while trying to follow the law.

    Wish they would add that a concealed weapon may be carried as long as the person does not exit the vehicle.
    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing." - Adolf Hitler

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