9th Circuit: 2nd Amendment applies to states - merged X 2

This is a discussion on 9th Circuit: 2nd Amendment applies to states - merged X 2 within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The ruling in Nordyke v. King is out. The 9th Circuit ruled in favor of incorporation, meaning that the 2A applies to state governments as ...

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Thread: 9th Circuit: 2nd Amendment applies to states - merged X 2

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    9th Circuit: 2nd Amendment applies to states - merged X 2

    The ruling in Nordyke v. King is out. The 9th Circuit ruled in favor of incorporation, meaning that the 2A applies to state governments as well as the federal government.

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    Ah hah :) Maybe they watched Thomas on C-Span the other day.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    They actually ruled against Nordyke on the 2A issue itself (ruling that the 2A does not protect the right to hold a gun show on public property). However, I think the incorporation ruling is the important one. Anyone in the 9th Circuit can sue state or local governments for abridging their 2A rights.

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    They got it right

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    They actually ruled against Nordyke on the 2A issue itself (ruling that the 2A does not protect the right to hold a gun show on public property). However, I the incorporation ruling is the important one. Anyone in the 9th Circuit can sue state or local governments for abridging their 2A rights.
    I think they actually got it right. That is, I didn't think they needed to get into 2A to find that it was OK that a gun show not be allowed on public property; just as it would be OK to not allow a dog show on public property, or a a pole dancing exhibit on public property.

    I am somewhat surprised they got into the incorporation issue at all as they didn't need to go there at all. But since they did, good!!!

    I now wait for SD to pop up and predict the USSC will overturn the 9th's opinion--- because it goes against his favorite 19th century rulings.

    Maybe they watched Thomas on C-Span.

    Oh, and for all the 9th circuit haters, they just advanced your freedom. It can only get better now.

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    The 9th Circuit ruled in favor of incorporation, meaning that the 2A applies to state governments as well as the federal government.
    The Court's ruling only applies to the States within its jurisdiction, which are AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA, plus Guam and the Northern Marianas Islands.

    Good news for CA, tho. The California State Constitution does not have a right to keep and bear arms provision.

    The 5th Circuit Court previously ruled to incorporate the 2A to TX, LA and MS.

    12 States down, 38 to go.


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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    It almost makes it a certainty that somebody very soon will sue for relief in the 9th Circuit based on the incorporation ruling, and then that case will get appealed to SCOTUS. That means it is very likely to get that high before the current Administration gets to nominate a new Justice...

    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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    well...no help for us in VA...yet?

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    Conflicting Circuit court rulings???

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post

    The 5th Circuit Court previously ruled to incorporate the 2A to TX, LA and MS.

    12 States down, 38 to go.
    I'd not realized this was the case, else I'd have used it in one of my many exchanges with SD.

    So now, at least 2 Circuit courts have held for 2A---and the importance of that is sooner or later either the other courts will agree or the issue will have to be settled by the Supremes.

    May take another 30 years :---

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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    It's a little silly and a little sad that we need to engage this kind of schoolyard nonsense to affirm the 2A rights of citizens.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    The only problem is that, on one point (which is conceding a lot, in this instance), SD is right that the only extant controlling SCOTUS precedent is the Cruikshank line of cases, which--although clearly contrary to the overwhelming jurisprudence on the 14th Amendment and virtually certain to be overturned when the issue is directly before SCOTUS--nonetheless provides a basis for the Nordyke case to be appealed. And, since Nordyke could have been decided without delving into the 2nd Amendment/14th Amendment issue, it is possible that SCOTUS could reverse that part of the decision, not on a substantive basis (because SCOTUS almost certainly would agree with the substance of Nordyke's 2A/14A [/U] ruling) but on a procedural basis, because a ruling on that issue was not necessary to decide the case. Alternatively--and the most likely outcome--is that SCOTUS will simply deny certiorari to anyone who appeals Nordyke, leaving the question ultimately open until a "better" case, in which the 2A/14A issue is directly on point, comes along. Then SCOTUS will be able to clearly and definitively overturn the Cruikshank line of cases.

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    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    The 5th Circuit Court previously ruled to incorporate the 2A to TX, LA and MS.
    Which case was that? I thought the Nordyke case would be the first circuit court ruling on incorporation.

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    Regarding potential appeals, there's an interesting post over on The Volokh Conspiracy regarding this. The short summary is that the county cannot appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, because they won on the merits (even if they don't like the fact that the circuit court incorporated the 2A on the way to giving them their victory). The plaintiffs could appeal to the Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court probably wouldn't even take the case because there's no circuit split on the question of how the 2A applies to public property.

    So unless one side or the other can persuade the full 9th circuit to review the ruling en banc (this ruling was by a 3 judge panel), this case probably isn't getting appealed by either side.

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    One of the SPECIFIC points addressed in the case heard by the 9th was whether the 2A / Heller applied to the States, i.e. incorporation. The decision against the plaintiff (the gun show promoter) was on a procedural point. The Court did answer the incorporation question though, applying 2A to the States.

    CA does "back into" having RKBA in its Constitution, stating that the US Constitution is the supreme law of the land, but without specifically stating that CA residents have the RKBA. Instead of getting "4" we got "2 + 2" - the same result but not in so many words.

    BTW, tomorrow AM, a legislative committee meets for the first hurdle hearing on changing CA from "may issue" to "shall issue" CCW. Hopefully Nordyke came at a very good time.

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    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ninth circuit rules 2nd amendment incorporated to states - merged

    NEWS RELEASE
    Second Amendment Foundation
    12500 NE Tenth Place
    Bellevue, WA 98005
    (425) 454-7012
    FAX (425) 451-3959
    Second Amendment Foundation Online


    NINTH CIRCUIT RULES 2ND AMENDMENT INCORPORATED TO STATES


    For Immediate Release: Contact: Alan Gottlieb (425) 454-7012

    BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation today applauded the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco for ruling that the Second Amendment is incorporated against the states and local governments.

    The majority opinion was written by Judge Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain, with a concurring opinion from Judge Ronald M. Gould, who wrote, “The right to bear arms is a bulwark against external invasionÂ…That we have a lawfully armed populace adds a measure of security for all of us and makes it less likely that a band of terrorists could make headway in an attack on any community before more professional forces arrived.”

    Although the court found against the plaintiffs in the case of Nordyke v. King – Russell and Sallie Nordyke, operators of a gun show in Alameda County, CA – the court acknowledged that its earlier position that the Second Amendment protected only a collective right of states has been overruled by the Supreme Court’s 2008 historic ruling in District of Columbia v. Dick Anthony Heller. That was the case in which the high court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual civil right to keep and bear arms.

    “This is a great victory for advancement of the fundamental individual right of American citizens to own firearms,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “The Ninth Circuit panel has acknowledged that the Heller ruling abrogated its earlier position on the Second Amendment, and it further clarified that the Second Amendment is incorporated to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment through the due process clause.”

    SAF attorney Alan Gura, who successfully argued the Heller case before the Supreme Court in March 2008, filed an amicus brief in the Nordyke case. The Nordykes sued when Alameda County banned gun shows at the county fairgrounds by making it illegal to bring or possess firearms or ammunition on county property.

    “The Heller ruling in 2008 was the first critical step toward full restoration of the individual citizen’s right to keep and bear arms to its rightful position as a cornerstone of the Bill of Rights,” Gottlieb observed. “This victory in the Ninth Circuit not only reinforces the Heller ruling, it expands upon it.”

    Court Ruling pdf

    The Second Amendment Foundation (Second Amendment Foundation Online) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Running here:
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...es-states.html

    This article would be a good addition to the thread.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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