Uh oh...Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

Uh oh...Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

This is a discussion on Uh oh...Are you licensed to reload that ammo? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Are you licensed to reload that ammo? WEAPONS OF CHOICE Are you licensed to reload that ammo? Alarm raised over treaty provision to ban activity ...

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Thread: Uh oh...Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

  1. #1
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    Uh oh...Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

    Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

    WEAPONS OF CHOICE
    Are you licensed to reload that ammo?
    Alarm raised over treaty provision to ban activity

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posted: April 21, 2009
    10:00 pm Eastern


    By Bob Unruh
    2009 WorldNetDaily


    President Obama, who supported the handgun ban in Washington, D.C., before it was tossed by the Supreme Court, since his election has watched various proposals to ban "assault" weapons, require handgun owners to submit to mental health evaluations, and sparked a rush on ammunition purchases that caused some retailers to name him their salesman of the year. Now he apparently is going after those to reload their ammunition.

    It was during an official visit earlier this month to Mexico that he affirmed his support for a proposed international treaty that addresses "firearms trafficking."

    According to a blogger who follows such issues, the treaty was adopted by President Clinton years ago, but never ratified by the U.S. Senate, a goal Obama now has adopted.

    The writer, B.A. Lawson, says, "If you reload your own ammo you may find yourself engaged in 'Illicit Manufacturing' of ammunition under an arms control treaty that President Obama started pushing last week in Mexico."

    "Virtually everyone who supports the 2nd Amendment or has an interest in firearms has heard the numerous recent reports of ammunition shortages. The shortages have extended to reloading supplies that many folks rely on to keep their shooting costs down or to assemble exotic or hard to find ammunition. Many shooters have considered reloading their own ammo as insurance against limited supplies should legislation be enacted that would make ammo more scarce or dramatically more expensive," the blogger continued.

    "Those thoughts may be in vain if the current administration is successful in getting the 'INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS' treaty passed."

    The treaty defines "Illicit manufacturing" as "the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

    It then gives authority for that activity only with "a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place."

    "The section clearly identifies ammo reloaders that are not licensed by the government as 'Illicit Manufacturers' of ammunition. Now that we have reloaders properly labeled, lets move down to Article IV to see what we should do with them," the commentary said.

    He then quotes Article IV, which states, "State Parties that have not yet done so shall adopt the necessary legislative or other measures to establish as criminal offenses under their domestic law the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

    "This is pretty straightforward. If you reload ammunition without a license after the treaty is signed you will be a criminal," Lawson wrote.

    The National Rifle Association said the treaty "does include language suggesting that it is not intended to restrict 'lawful ownership and use' of firearms. Despite those words, the NRA knows that anti-gun advocates will still try to use this treaty to attack gun ownership in the U.S."

    The treaty is available online. INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS

    At the SnowflakesinHell blog, the writer said there's no mistaking the language.

    Even accessories "which can be attached to a firearm" are targeted.

    "It would presumably also ban home manufacture of these items without a government license. Do you own trigger jobs? Reload your own ammunition? Not any more, not without a government license!"

    The Examiner.com said such international gun restrictions are unacceptable.

    John Velleco, director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, notes the benefits for Obama of having such rules in treaties, not legislation.

    "If ratified and the U.S. is found not to be in compliance with any provisions of the treaty such as a provision that would outlaw reloading ammunition without a government license President Obama would be empowered to implement regulations without congressional approval," he wrote.

    "If the kind of 'change' that Obama wants is for the United States to take its marching orders from third world countries regarding our gun rights, we're in big trouble!"
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    My greatest 2A related fear, control of ammo.

    Of all the rounds used in crimes across the country and continent, I doubt less then 1% are from reloads.

    Scary stuff HotGuns.
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    Its get more bizarre with each passing day.

    He knows its an uphill fight here in the states, so he pursues other avenues that have the same effect without the political hooplah.

    And yet there are still those that insist it will "never happen here"...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    I just like to remind people that 2A is the only amendment that prepares you for when they try and take it away.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    I just like to remind people that 2A is the only amendment that prepares you for when they try and take it away.
    As a young feller, it's been a rude and scary awakening of the mind for me in preparing for that day when they come to my door, which I fully expect my generation to deal with (not neccesarily in a manner which would resolve it in our favor, I have met too many people my age that are UN Pansies ). But there are also plenty of Freedom Loving, Constitution Defending, Right Wing Extremists that are my age too, so it's not completely hopeless.

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    The treaty defines "Illicit manufacturing" as "the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

    It then gives authority for that activity only with "a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place."
    And where in the U.S. (or almost anywhere else) would you find a competent governmental authority these days?
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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Folks, regardless of Obama's lip service, that treaty has zero chance of being ratified. He'd need 67 votes in the Senate. He couldn't get 67 votes on the same lunch order.

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    Yep.

    I remember being told that Obama had zero chance of being president too.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I remember being told that Obama had zero chance of being president too.
    So do I. This country has come a long way (in the wrong direction).

  10. #10
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yep.

    I remember being told that Obama had zero chance of being president too.
    If you can't see the difference between incorrectly predicting a presidential race and simply counting votes....

    Look, he might try to do an end run and enact stuff without regard to the treaty, he might do lots of things. But do the math. If he got EVERY Democrat to vote with him (which he wouldn't), he'd still have to draw seven Republicans. Not going to happen. Do you really think that the Bluedogs, who have already drawn a line in the sand over less restrictive gun laws, are going to agree to this thing? And at least seven Republicans?

    Possible? Sure, but in grand scheme of "things a gun owner should be worried about from the Obama administration", this is waaaaaaay down the list.

  11. #11
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    Here we go again. Should I get my tin foil hat out now or wait till the thread gets a bit longer. Unless your in the business of importing or exporting the stuff, it really isn't going to make a bit of difference to the home reloader. That is "IF" it gets ratified by the Senate. Oh wait, that can't be right because a "blogger" said it would ban all reloading.

    Article II
    Purpose

    The purpose of this Convention is:

    to prevent, combat, and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials;

    to promote and facilitate cooperation and exchange of information and experience among States Parties to prevent, combat, and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials.

    Article III
    Sovereignty

    1. States Parties shall carry out the obligations under this Convention in a manner consistent with the principles of sovereign equality and territorial integrity of states and that of nonintervention in the domestic affairs of other states.

    2. A State Party shall not undertake in the territory of another State Party the exercise of jurisdiction and performance of functions which are exclusively reserved to the authorities of that other State Party by its domestic law.

    Article V
    Jurisdiction

    1. Each State Party shall adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention when the offense in question is committed in its territory.

    2. Each State Party may adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention when the offense is committed by one of its nationals or by a person who habitually resides in its territory.

    3. Each State Party shall adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention when the alleged criminal is present in its territory and it does not extradite such person to another country on the ground of the nationality of the alleged criminal.

    4. This Convention does not preclude the application of any other rule of criminal jurisdiction established by a State Party under its domestic law.

    Article IX
    Export, Import, and Transit Licenses or Authorizations

    1. States Parties shall establish or maintain an effective system of export, import, and international transit licenses or authorizations for transfers of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials.

    2. States Parties shall not permit the transit of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials until the receiving State Party issues the corresponding license or authorization.

    3. States Parties, before releasing shipments of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials for export, shall ensure that the importing and in-transit countries have issued the necessary licenses or authorizations.

    4. The importing State Party shall inform the exporting State Party, upon request, of the receipt of dispatched shipments of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    While I don't think this is a likely threat (licensed to reload that ammo) in the next 3.5 years, I do believe it is the most sought after legislation by anti-gun.

    So, it is reasonable to believe, since anti-gun really does not have the votes / political will to make it happen, the goal might be accomplished in an underhanded (but legal) manner.

    I am someone who does not believe anything much will happen beyond a return of the assault weapon ban. I believe that is a big maybe, and depends on mid-term elections.

    In addition, in the next 3.5 years, something equal to a sin tax on ammo could pop up. The governments (state and federal) are tax hungry. All sort of taxes could pop up.
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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Wait till this one gets around.........you think there is a shortage of reloading components now..........you ain't seen nothing yet.
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    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    I have written my Senators...
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  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I've never trafficked any of my reloads. I use them all myself....so there.

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