Libertarians and Gun Laws

Libertarians and Gun Laws

This is a discussion on Libertarians and Gun Laws within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have run into some flak on the forums from the members and their misunderstanding of the Libertarian stance on gun laws. I have posted ...

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Thread: Libertarians and Gun Laws

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Libertarians and Gun Laws

    I have run into some flak on the forums from the members and their misunderstanding of the Libertarian stance on gun laws. I have posted the link below to help clear it up.

    For the Uber-Right: we are not Liberals!
    For the Uber-Left: we are not Liberals!

    Gun Laws | Libertarian Party
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.


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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I have run into some flak on the forums from the members and their misunderstanding of the Libertarian stance on gun laws. I have posted the link below to help clear it up.

    For the Uber-Right: we are not Liberals!
    For the Uber-Left: we are not Liberals!

    Gun Laws | Libertarian Party
    Good read! And spot on, IMO.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    I didn't know the Libertarians were taking flak.

    I voted for Bob Barr and one of the reasons was his near perfect stance on gun laws. I understand why the NRA wanted to back McCain, but they missed a big opportunity to back a true 2a believer in Barr.

    The NRA did themselves no political favor by backing a man they once called "the most dangerous man in America" when it came to gun laws. They should have backed Barr and kept a clear message on point. I would be no less fearful of McCain than I am Obama when it comes to gun laws.

    The Libertarians are the new conservatives. And by "conservative" I mean it in the TRUE political meaning of the word, and that means they are in the interest of "conserving and preserving" The Constitution as it stands. The term "conservative" has been hijacked by this extreme right-wing line that is anything but about being a true American conservative. The new "Republicans" are anything but conservative in the true term. The Libertarians are our only hope to win back a true America!

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    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    The Libertarians are the new conservatives. And by "conservative" I mean it in the TRUE political meaning of the word, and that means they are in the interest of "conserving and preserving" The Constitution as it stands. The term "conservative" has been hijacked by this extreme right-wing line that is anything but about being a true American conservative. The new "Republicans" are anything but conservative in the true term. The Libertarians are our only hope to win back a true America!
    Agreed!

    Well, there is the Libertarian Party (capital L); There are also libertarians (small l) who are a somewhat diverse group whose main political value seems to be freedom in most things. I consider myself libertarian (small l) but am not affiliated and will not affiliate with the Libertarian Party.

    Actually, the founders would have been considered "liberals" in their day. Liberal, meaning pro-freedom. "Conservative" is the idea that things should stay as they are/were. Clearly both words have been hijacked. If we use "liberal" to mean pro-freedom and "conservative" as in favor of fiscally-sound policy and small government, then libertarians are both "liberal" and "conservative", but not in the sense they are commonly used.

    And both types of L/libertarians love guns and everything about guns! We share a love of fiscal and firearm freedom with many of our "conservative" brothers and sisters and a love of social freedom with many of our "liberal" ones.

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Right. Libertarians with a capital L is in and of itself a somewhat diverse group of people. Their platform is fairly straightforward, but isn't for the weak of heart. It's true Americanism, which isn't something everyone is ready for. With that said, not everyone who labels themselves as a capital L Libertarian holds all these values, just like how not every Repub holds the official Repub values or every Dem holds the official Dem values.

    Official platform:
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    Regardless, the gist of most Libertarians (even small l libertarians), is freedom. True freedom and the limiting of government. The Second Amendment is fully supported and unquestioned among Libertarians (and small l libertarians as well). Any sovereign citizen has the right to be free of criminal force and to protect his justly acquired property - in a nutshell, that is the standpoint of Libertarians. There is also a bit of a joke that "you can't be a Libertarian if you don't own a gun - you have to own a gun." Maybe its true, heh.

    Some people get turned off because they don't differentiate (or take time to research) the difference between big L and little l. There are MANY varieties of small-l libertarians, including some fringe groups. But that's what makes it so great - its diverse, but still focused on freedom. That's my favorite type of political diversity.

    Most of the groups, even fringe groups, also have logical arguments for their positions, not just emotional and irrational reasoning like you see with many other political groups many of us don't agree with. You might not agree with every group, but at least they can rationally discuss it without crying, yelling, or making weird logical leaps. Libertarians, especially on college campuses, are probably some of the most informed and logical politically active students you'll meet. It attracts a lot of free-thinking intellectuals.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    Liberal, meaning pro-freedom. "Conservative" is the idea that things should stay as they are/were. Clearly both words have been hijacked.
    Liberal doesn't really mean pro-freedom, it means pro-change, seeking to upend the status quo.

    This can mean pro-freedom, but not always. If the status quo is rule by King George III, then a liberal would be freedom loving. If the status quo is a democracy with strong protection for individual rights, than a liberal would be anti-freedom.

    The fact that liberal gets defined in opposition to the status quo explains why "liberal" refers to completely opposite economic policies in the U.S. and Europe. When liberal was defined in Europe, the status quo was protectionist, monarchist, and anti-free market. When it was defined in the United States, the status quo was free market, democratic, laissez faire capitalism. The status quo has changed since then, but the differing definition of liberal remains.

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    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    So now even the Librarians have a political party and a stance on guns ?
    I thought that they just sat around "shushing" kids and organizing books by the Dewey Decimal system. What is the world coming to ?

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    So now even the Librarians have a political party and a stance on guns ?
    I thought that they just sat around "shushing" kids and organizing books by the Dewey Decimal system. What is the world coming to ?
    Heh.

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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info.

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    Many of my friends are shocked when I tell them that their views of a utopia under true libratairian rules are just plain wrong. Somewhere they seemed to have picked up the idea that everyone would be taken care of. That it would be like living in a hippie commune.

    It just shows that most people pick their political party without ever investigating what it is. The democrats of the 60's for the most part would be considered conservitives by todays standards. The party has changed but the base values of most dems have not.

    Read some of Hubert Humphries speaches. He would be called a racist and cruel hearted today by his party. He was actually farther to the right on most issues that many so called rebublicans are today.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Those would be my views.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Liberal doesn't really mean pro-freedom, it means pro-change, seeking to upend the status quo.

    This can mean pro-freedom, but not always. If the status quo is rule by King George III, then a liberal would be freedom loving. If the status quo is a democracy with strong protection for individual rights, than a liberal would be anti-freedom.

    The fact that liberal gets defined in opposition to the status quo explains why "liberal" refers to completely opposite economic policies in the U.S. and Europe. When liberal was defined in Europe, the status quo was protectionist, monarchist, and anti-free market. When it was defined in the United States, the status quo was free market, democratic, laissez faire capitalism. The status quo has changed since then, but the differing definition of liberal remains.



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    Member Array jcaramis's Avatar
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    +1 from a (big and small l) libertarian
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    I'm with you fellers.
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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Well said, BlackEagle...

    And the libertarian position on firearms is pretty much mine as well....
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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