Bill to ban private sales in Congress

Bill to ban private sales in Congress

This is a discussion on Bill to ban private sales in Congress within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Senator Frank R. Lautenberg "WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sens. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ), Jack Reed (D-RI) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) today joined Paul Helmke, President of ...

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Thread: Bill to ban private sales in Congress

  1. #1
    Member Array Rolling Oaks's Avatar
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    Bill to ban private sales in Congress

    Senator Frank R. Lautenberg





    "WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sens. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ), Jack Reed (D-RI) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) today joined Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and victims and family members of the Virginia Tech tragedy, to introduce legislation to close the nation’s “gun show loophole.” The bill introduction follows the tenth anniversary of the Columbine tragedy and the second anniversary of the tragedy at Virginia Tech this week. The legislation is cosponsored by Sens. Dick Durbin (D-IL), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Charles Schumer (D-NY), John Kerry (D-MA), Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Carl Levin (D-MI), Ben Cardin (D-MD) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) and Robert Menendez (D-NJ).

    “There is no rational reason to oppose closing the loophole. The reason it’s still not closed is simple: the continuing power of the special interest gun lobby in Washington,” Sen. Lautenberg said. “My legislation would require background checks for every gun purchased at every gun show across America and would help keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Without this change in the law, anyone – from felons to terrorists to fugitives – can buy a gun at a gun show, no questions asked. That needs to change.”

    The Senators’ bill would close the loophole by requiring background checks on all sales at gun shows. The bill defines a gun show as any event where 50 or more guns are offered or exhibited for sale. In addition, the bill would require:

    gun show promoters to register with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), maintain a list of vendors at all gun shows and ensure that all vendors acknowledge receipt of information about their legal obligations; and
    federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to submit information, including the manufacturer/importer, model and serial number of firearms transferred at gun shows to the ATF’s National Tracing Center (NTC). No personal information about either the seller or the purchaser would be given to the ATF. Instead, as under current law, FFLs would maintain personal information in their files. The National Tracing Center would request personal information from an FFL only if a firearm becomes the subject of a law enforcement trace request.
    “As someone who served in the Army, I have great respect for firearms and responsible gun ownership. The Gun Show Background Check Act is a responsible and common sense approach to preventing firearms from winding up in the hands of criminals and straw purchasers,” said Senator Jack Reed. “This legislation is critical to making our communities safer, which is why it is strongly supported by law enforcement officers nationwide. Passing this bill would help prevent the killing of innocent people, and it would do so without infringing on anyone’s right to own a gun.”

    “We don’t need any more evidence that a gun in the hands of the wrong person is a real threat to our schools, our families, and our communities. Allowing sales at gun shows without identification, without accountability and without knowing whether the buyer is a felon or mentally ill, is unacceptable,” Senator Feinstein said. “This legislation proposes common sense protections that do not limit the rights of law abiding citizens to own and purchase guns.”

    “Closing this long-standing, flagrant, irresponsible and increasingly dangerous loophole in federal gun laws will make gun show transactions safer for all our people, and it’s urgently needed. It makes absolutely no sense to tolerate this loophole that allows criminals and terrorists to buy guns at gun shows and avoid the minimal federal regulations that now exist. I commend Senator Lautenberg for introducing this bill, and I look forward to its enactment into law as soon as possible. Too many lives are in danger for Congress to delay any longer,” said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy.

    “Ten years after two dangerous young men used gun show guns to kill and maim, it is way past time to extend the successful Brady background check system in America to gun sales at gun shows,” said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. “There is no rational reason why as a nation we should not do this. I want to applaud Senator Frank Lautenberg for championing this bill to close the gun show loophole."

    The victims and families of the Virginia Tech tragedy joining the members for the announcement included Omar Samaha, the brother of Reema Samaha, and his father Joe. Omar’s sister Reema was one of 32 victims who were shot and killed at Virginia Tech. Omar was recently followed by ABC News into a gun show where he was able to purchase ten guns, in under an hour, with no questions asked.

    “My sister Reema was shot and killed at Virginia Tech because of a loophole with the background check system for gun purchases. Ever since April 16th I have been working to fix problems with America’s gun background check system – and the gun show loophole is the most outrageous gap. It’s time for Congress to step up and require background checks for all sales at guns shows,” Omar Samaha, the brother of Reema Samaha, said.

    “A national law to close the gun show loop hole will prevent guns from falling into the hands of felons, domestic abusers and the mentally adjudicated. This piece of valuable legislation must be enacted to protect the citizens of this country,” Suzanne Grimes said. Suzanne is the mother of Virginia Tech survivor Kevin Sterne. An Eagle Scout, Kevin saved his own life by putting a tourniquet on himself to stop the bleeding after being shot in his femoral artery.

    In 1993, the Brady Law was passed requiring prospective purchasers of guns sold by federal firearms licensees, like gun shops and pawn shops, to go through a background check. However, a loophole in current law allows people to purchase guns from unlicensed dealers at gun shows without going through a background check. The ATF reports that between 25 to 50 percent of firearm vendors at gun shows are unlicensed.

    As a result of this loophole, convicted felons, fugitives, domestic abusers, the mentally ill and other people who are prohibited by federal law from owning guns are able to purchase firearms at gun shows. For example, the two teenagers who shot and killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine High School in 1999 used guns obtained from gun shows.

    In 1999, Sen. Lautenberg introduced the first bill in Congress to close the gun show loophole. Later that year, in the wake of the Columbine tragedy, the Senate passed Sen. Lautenberg’s legislation to close the gun show loophole as an amendment to a juvenile justice bill. The legislation passed by one vote, with Vice President Gore casting the tiebreaking vote. However, the gun lobby killed the legislation in House-Senate conference. "

    Just thought you guys oughta know about this bologna.
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    If the bill is only aimed at gun show sales, then the title of the thread is inaccurate since private sales will not be banned, just private sales at gun shows.

    While I don't think this will get anywhere, I can see where they are coming from since while at the gun show your really are not making private sales in most states. Most states technically require sellers of this nature whether they are candles at the local fair or guns at a show to apply and obtain a business/sales tax permit and therefore you are conducting business.

    We will have to see if it gets any traction, my guess is that it won't.
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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    All this will do is to ban individuals from selling at guns shows (which is a small percentage anyways). Individuals will still be able to sell to other individuals in private transactions. Seems like a useless bill that will just make the anti's hungry for more laws.

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    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Seems like a useless bill that will just make the anti's hungry for more laws.
    Agreed
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    Member Array Obiwan's Avatar
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    just like "chum" to a shark.
    When seconds count, help is minutes away!

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Bet MT is wishing their new Made in MT, sold in MT law was written to include private gun show sales.....
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    My dilemma is how to write my congressmen without inadvertantly suggesting they ban all private sales.

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    I don't get too worked up about the private sale issue. I realize everyone is different, but I would not do a private sale with someone I don't know really well. There is too much risk to buying a stolen gun, and too much risk to selling to a felon.

    I'm not into buying and selling, but have traded stuff with relatives. Since they lived out of state, it had to go through an FFL at both ends anyway.

    There is protection for the gun owner in doing it this way; I don't think guns should be registered, but doing the transfer through an FFL seems like a sane and reasonable thing for our own protection.

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    Member Array Uechi's Avatar
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    I'm pretty hardover when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, but I have a real problem with the private sale of firearms to strangers whether it is a gun show or not. Anyone who sells to a stranger is making the risky assumption that that the buyer is not a felon and or mentally deranged. Friends and family is one thing, strangers should have to have the firearm transfered to them through an FFL dealer with the appropriate paperwork. I for one could not live with myself if a firearm I sold to a stranger resulted in an unnessary maiming or death.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    My sister Reema was shot and killed at Virginia Tech because of a loophole with the background check system for gun purchases
    Uh, no. Your sister was shot because a psychopath decided to kill a bunch of unarmed people. It is entirely unrelated to gun shows and federal law.

    Cho bought his gun at a gun store!
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Yes, our Senator Bill Nelson made us aware that this was coming up, and asked my opinion of it.

    For the most part I am not opposed to it.

    I am in opposition to any “infringements” to our constitutional rights to bear arms, but I am alarmed with the amount of weapons that are finding their way into the hands of violent repeat criminal offenders.

    And I see closing the loophole in gun shows, being able to sell firearms without a background check as just for the cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    If the bill is only aimed at gun show sales, then the title of the thread is inaccurate since private sales will not be banned, just private sales at gun shows.........
    This is just a step toward banning private sales. ANYBODY that doubts their true intention better think again!

    Just remember the words they have spoken:
    • "We are taking the law and bending it as far as we can to capture a whole new class of guns [to ban]"--- Jose Cerda (Clinton White House official)

    "Gun registration is not enough."-- Janet Reno, U.S. Attorney General

    • "I want to make it as hard as possible. Gun owners would have to be evaluated by how they scored on written and firing tests, and have to pass the tests in order to own a gun. And I would tax the guns, bullets and the license itself very heavily."-- Jocelyn Elders, U.S. Surgeon General
    " ... we could tax them [firearms] out of existence."-- Daniel Patrick Moynihan, U.S. Senator

    • "We're going to have to take this one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily - given the political realities - going to be very modest. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal - total control of all guns- is going to take time ... The final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition - except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs and licensed gun collectors - totally illegal."-- Nelson T. Shields III, Founder of Handgun Control, Inc

    "Yes, I'm for an outright ban [on handguns]." -Pete Shields

    "There is no personal right to be armed for private purposes unrelated to the service in a well regulated militia."--- Sarah Brady

    • "We must reverse this psychology (of needing guns for home defense). WE can do it by passing a law that says anyone found in possession a handgun except a legitimate officer of the law goes to jail-period!"-- Carl Rowan

    "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in," I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here." -U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein

    "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe." -U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein

    "The national guard fulfills the the militia mentioned in the Second Amendment. Citizens no longer need to protect the states or themselves."-Dianne Feinstein

    "There is little sense in gun registration. What we need to significantly enhance public safety is domestic disarmament . . . . Domestic disarmament entails the removal of arms from private hands . . . . Given the proper political support by the people who oppose the pro-gun lobby, legislation to remove the guns from private hands, acts like the legislation drafted by Senator John Chafee [to ban handguns], can be passed in short order."-Henry Cisneros

    "Repealing the Second Amendment is no cause for the faint-hearted, but it remains the only way for liberals to trigger an honest debate on the future of our bullet-plagued society. So what if anti-gun advocates have to devote the next 15 or 20 years to the struggle? The cause is worth the political pain. Failing to take bold action condemns all of us to spend our lives cringing in terror every time we hear a car backfire."--Walter Shapiro

    "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."-Joseph Biden

    "We must be able to arrest people before they commit crimes. By registering guns and knowing who has them we can do that... If they have guns they are pretty likely to commit a crime."-Mary Ann Carlson State Senator (VT)

    "As you know, my position is we should ban all handguns, get rid of them, no manufacture, no sale, no importation, no transportation, no possession of a handgun."-John H. Chafee U.S. Senator

    "Defensive gun ownership is "anarchy, not order under law--a jungle where each relies on himself for survival," and an insult to government, for "[a] state in which a citizen needs a gun to protect himself from crime has failed to perform its first purpose."-Ramsey Clark, former U.S. AG

    "People who like assault weapons, they should join the United States Army; we have them....-Wesley Clark

    "We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases."-William L. Clay

    "I stand in support of this common sense legislation to license everyone who wishes to purchase a gun. I also believe that every new handgun sale or or transfer should be listed in a national registry, such as Chuck [Senator Schumer] is proposing."-Hillary Clinton

    "And we should -- then every community in the country could then start doing major weapon sweeps and then destroying the weapons, not selling them."-Bill Clinton

    "Assault weapons in the hands of civilians exist for no reason but to inspire fear and wreak deadly havoc on our streets."-Bill Clinton

    "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans... And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedoms being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how were going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities."-Bill Clinton

    "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to own handguns and rifles that we are unable to think clearly about reality."-Bill Clinton

    "If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees."-Bill Clinton

    "The constitution is a radical document. It is the job of government to reign in people's rights."-Bill Clinton

    "If it was up to me, no one but law enforcement officers would own handguns..."-Richard Daley

    "You know I don't believe in people owning guns, only the police and military. And I'm going to do everything I can to disarm this state." -Michael Dukakis

    "I think you have to do it a step at a time and I think that is what the NRA is most concerned about, is that it will happen one very small step at a time, so that by the time people have "woken up" -- quote -- to what's happened, it's gone farther than what they feel the consensus of American citizens would be. But it does have to go one step at a time and the beginning of the banning of semi-assault military weapons, that are military weapons, not "household" weapons, is the first step."-Barbara Fass

    "I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."-Howard Metzenbaum
    I could go on....but you should be getting the idea.......THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO OWN ANY GUNS!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #13
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    Murder is against the law already. An additional law to close "gun show loopholes" does nothing to address the disregard of law.

    Does anyone see a problem here? It's centered in "repeat offenders." We will have just as much crime as we are collectively willing to tolerate. Fix the broken justice system and leave guns shows alone.
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    Member Array Rolling Oaks's Avatar
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    As far as the title, you'll have to forgive me, I just copied and pasted it from elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    Uh, no. Your sister was shot because a psychopath decided to kill a bunch of unarmed people. It is entirely unrelated to gun shows and federal law.

    Cho bought his gun at a gun store!
    Yuuuuuuuuuup. And what's the best and by far the most effective way to stop and defend against people like Cho?

    The Answer: Duck down behind your desk, and then cry and pray that you're not next while hoping that the officers get there with their usual 5 minute response time.
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.

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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    “Ten years after two dangerous young men used gun show guns to kill and maim,
    Helmke redefines the word shameless. It would have been more accurate and relevant to call them, "straw purchased guns," but that's not quite as sensational sounding. And anyone who has read anything about Columbine knows that those boys would have found a way to get guns. In fact, they wanted to inflict much larger carnage with their bombs and the guns were going to be used to pick off stragglers, but they weren't too skilled at bomb making (thankfully) and changed their plan.

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