U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes

U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes

This is a discussion on U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes Comments 7 Buzz up!BY JIM MYERS - Tulsa World Published: May 17, 2009 WASHINGTON — ...

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Thread: U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes

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    U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes

    U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn gun measure draws fire from foes
    Comments 7
    Buzz up!BY JIM MYERS - Tulsa World
    Published: May 17, 2009
    WASHINGTON — Opponents say U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn’s efforts to change decades-old rules for national parks could lead to loaded guns, even assault weapons, in some of the nation’s most sacred sites.

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    "This is a bad idea,” said Scot McElveen, president of the Association of National Park Rangers.

    McElveen even took issue with the Oklahoma Republican’s claims that his Senate-passed amendment would not apply to monuments.

    "That’s not how I read it,” he said, citing Coburn’s own language that indicates his amendment, if it became law, would apply to all units of the National Park System.

    McElveen said that would include Southwest sites that are "very sacred” to some American Indians.

    "To have folks with firearms there would be very disturbing to them.”

    Another example of a park service site where loaded gun would be inappropriate is the San Antonio missions in Texas, McElveen said.

    Coburn’s office did not respond to requests for comment.

    Last week, the Senate caught critics of Coburn’s efforts off guard when it attached his gun amendment to a credit card bill by a vote 67 to 29.

    Insisting his legislation was not a "gotcha amendment,” Coburn claimed his proposal was to ensure constitutional rights were not being trampled by unelected bureaucrats.

    "It is to say, does the Second Amendment mean something?” Coburn said.

    His language would allow visitors to carry loaded guns into national parks located in states that do not bar such activity.


    Why the change?
    Under regulations that date back to the Reagan administration, weapons carried into parks have to be inoperable and not readily accessible.
    Coburn said that left law-abiding citizens who live in states without such restrictions vulnerable to violating a federal regulation.

    He said his amendment also was about upholding states’ rights and giving park visitors the ability to defend themselves against attacks — from other visitors and animals.

    He cited 2006 statistics showing that the Fish and Wildlife Service and park service handled 16 homicides, 41 rape cases, 92 robberies, 16 robberies and 333 aggravated assaults.

    McElveen did not challenge Coburn’s crime statistics but said what they really prove is how safe national parks really are.

    He said national parks draw about 300 million visitors a year, adding crime statistics indicate the rate of violent crime in the parks comes to 1.65 per 100,000 park visitors. The national crime rate comes to 469.2 per 100,000 people, McElveen said.

    Crime rates, he said, are not a legitimate reason to change regulations that have their origin in a 100-year-old law that created the park service and charged with, among other duties, preserving wildlife.

    McElveen also pointed out that Coburn’s claim that his amendment would help protect park visitors does not track with its actual language because it would still be against the rules to fire a gun, even at a rabid animal.

    He conceded that anyone discharging a firearm in self-defense probably would not be prosecuted.

    Another critic of Coburn’s amendment called on President Barack Obama to show leadership and demand that it be taken out of the credit card bill.

    "Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    McElveen said he was "shocked” by the Senate vote on the amendment, adding he would not be surprised now if House Democratic leaders left the language in the bill
    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto


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    "Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
    OK guys, time to "fess up". Which one of you have been CC'ing your AK?

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    ""Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."

    This law makes the National Parks bow to state laws, most if not all force you to conceal carry, if they allow carry at all.

    Last time I checked, it was rather hard to hide an AK-47, wasn't it?

    And how classic, they invoke the fear inspiring AK-47.

    And the funny part? It would still be illegal to fire the gun in a National Park, even in self defense, though they say "You probably won't be prosecuted"

    ....

    If I won't be prosecuted for not wanting to be eaten by a rabid mountain lion, then why forbid it in the first place?
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.

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    As if someone who would point a loaded AK47 at your family on a trail would decide not to if guns weren't allowed in the park.

    Where do these people come from ? IllLogic Land ?

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    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

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    Why does every debate over gun rights end up with the socialist party yelling AK-47?
    Regards,
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

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    He cited 2006 statistics showing that the Fish and Wildlife Service and park service handled 16 homicides, 41 rape cases, 92 robberies, 16 robberies and 333 aggravated assaults.

    McElveen did not challenge Coburn’s crime statistics but said what they really prove is how safe national parks really are.


    Soulds safe to me!
    Last edited by sigmanluke; May 18th, 2009 at 12:37 PM. Reason: more
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    We had a couple killed in the Ocala National forrest while camping They were killed by a nut case who decided to see what it felt like to kill someone. By the time the police were involved it was too late for the couple. I see no reason to ban cc in parks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    We had a couple killed in the Ocala National forrest while camping They were killed by a nut case who decided to see what it felt like to kill someone. By the time the police were involved it was too late for the couple. I see no reason to ban cc in parks.
    And do not forget the more recent cougar attacks!!!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    And do not forget the more recent cougar attacks!!!
    I've dated a few cougars. Never wanted to shoot one but I did have one I thought might shoot me.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I've dated a few cougars. Never wanted to shoot one but I did have one I thought might shoot me.
    LMAO

    I thought I was going to have to shoot one to get away from her!

    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    OK guys, time to "fess up". Which one of you have been CC'ing your AK?
    Only in my pants

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    Ex Member Array thylordjj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    OK guys, time to "fess up". Which one of you have been CC'ing your AK?

    SORRY

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    Ya,. It just amazes me where they always bring in the AK's... WOW.. That has nothing to do with the bill from what I read,.. It is the wild,. The wild has ALWAYS been a great place to carry a firearm for protection,. There is BEAR'S out there and Mountain lion's,. Not to mention, crazy people that just want to pre-tend they are Rambo and kill people out there,.

    I used to CC my AR15,.. But after firing a couple hundred rounds, found out putting it down my pants again his HOT!!!!!!...

    J/K

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    McElveen said that would include Southwest sites that are "very sacred” to some American Indians.

    "To have folks with firearms there would be very disturbing to them.”

    I think what is disturbing to our first nation brothers is liberal idiots telling them what is disturbing!
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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