President Obama support UN treaty that would require gun registration in the US

This is a discussion on President Obama support UN treaty that would require gun registration in the US within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by HotGuns Since History proves that registration of firearms is for the sole purpose of locating and confiscating firearms, how can it not ...

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Thread: President Obama support UN treaty that would require gun registration in the US

  1. #46
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Since History proves that registration of firearms is for the sole purpose of locating and confiscating firearms, how can it not be an infringement?
    History 'proves' nothing. It is anecdotal evidence.

    Registration is not an infringment in the same way that political dissent is not revolution. Sure, it can lead in that direction but in and of itself is not harmful.

    Confiscating firearms by the Federal government is an infringement and is not allowed by the Constitution. Registration does not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.

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  3. #47
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    Molon labe

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    History 'proves' nothing. It is anecdotal evidence.
    ... suggesting that "history" is the functional equivalent of the synonyms for "anecdotes": stories, yarns, reminiscences? And thus, we may rest easy, since it cannot therefore be a threat. Hm.

    If history shows a dozen clear instances, in just this past century, of forcible registration (effectively, at the point of a gun) followed by abuses ranging from full confiscation to genocide, it's not unreasonable to suggest that's effective "proof" of how easy it is to equate the initial step of registration with final steps such as these. The steps are, for all practical purposes, parts of the same plan.

    No, a criminal who arms himself isn't specifically engaging in a crime at that moment. But it's made a statutory crime due to the extreme risk of that act's high probability that it'll lead to very bad things in short order.

    Defensive weapons registration by the "authorities" is the same thing. It has no practical purpose other than subsequent confiscation. Nothing else is benefited but the comfort level of authoritarians in power, by registration/confiscation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  5. #49
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    ... suggesting that "history" is the functional equivalent of the synonyms for "anecdotes": stories, yarns, reminiscences? And thus, we may rest easy, since it cannot therefore be a threat. Hm.

    If history shows a dozen clear instances, in just this past century, of forcible registration (effectively, at the point of a gun) followed by abuses ranging from full confiscation to genocide, it's not unreasonable to suggest that's effective "proof" of how easy it is to equate the initial step of registration with final steps such as these. The steps are, for all practical purposes, parts of the same plan.

    No, a criminal who arms himself isn't specifically engaging in a crime at that moment. But it's made a statutory crime due to the extreme risk of that act's high probability that it'll lead to very bad things in short order.

    Defensive weapons registration by the "authorities" is the same thing. It has no practical purpose other than subsequent confiscation. Nothing else is benefited but the comfort level of authoritarians in power, by registration/confiscation.
    The entire discussion is moot. The American people do not want gun registration.

    I was only pointing out that it does not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. Being afraid of something that might happen is the defeated mindset of the anti-Federalists. In fact, that irrational fear was exactly the reason they lost their battle to defeat the Constitution.

  6. #50
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    History 'proves' nothing. It is anecdotal evidence.
    It does allow us insights to the way some people think and understanding it gives us fair warning so as not to make the same mistake twice.

    Registration is not an infringment in the same way that political dissent is not revolution. Sure, it can lead in that direction but in and of itself is not harmful.
    Then give me one good reason to register a firearm.
    Anyone with common sense can figure that registration only has one end...which is confiscation.

    It ain't rocket science.

    Confiscating firearms by the Federal government is an infringement and is not allowed by the Constitution. Registration does not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.
    Wrong again.Man, you have been wrong alot lately. Are you getting enough sleep?

    Registration DOES infringe on the right to bear arms since its only goal is to allow seizure of said weapons.

    Don't believe it? Talk to the Brit,the Aussies and the Canadians.

    Self Defense...do you think firearms should be registered?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Being afraid of something that might happen is the defeated mindset of the anti-Federalists. In fact, that irrational fear was exactly the reason they lost their battle to defeat the Constitution.
    Watchful vigilance isn't fear. Continued vigilance isn't defeatism. Irrational is most specifically what it is not, with so many practical recent examples of what registration is linked to.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  8. #52
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    Being afraid of something that might happen is the defeated mindset of the anti-Federalists. In fact, that irrational fear was exactly the reason they lost their battle to defeat the Constitution.
    Since the anti-Federalists have been dead for over 200 years, its a moot point.
    No body cares about that, its over, its water under the bridge. Why do you keep bringing it up?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  9. #53
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Since the anti-Federalists have been dead for over 200 years, its a moot point.
    No body cares about that, its over, its water under the bridge. Why do you keep bringing it up?
    Because modern day libertarians hold virtually the same views as the anti-Federalists. With the exception, of course, that anti-Federalists feared excessive judicial power where libertarians embrace the total control by the Federal judiciary.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Because modern day libertarians hold virtually the same views as the anti-Federalists. With the exception, of course, that anti-Federalists feared excessive judicial power where libertarians embrace the total control by the Federal judiciary.
    I still dont know why you beleive that. I dont know a single Libertarian that wants total control by the Federal Government. On the contrary, they wish most of it would simply go away.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The entire discussion is moot. The American people do not want gun registration.
    The American people didn't want a $787,000,000,000.00 "stimulus" package either but look how that worked out?

    The people in Washington don't give a darn about what "We the people" want. It is about what they want and serving their special interest groups.

    I am with virtually everyone else in this thread. Registration, no way, friend.

    Be Safe,

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  12. #56
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosaMSirhC View Post
    The American people didn't want a $787,000,000,000.00 "stimulus" package either but look how that worked out?
    I just did a quick and dirty search and found that all but one survey had a bare majority of the American public supporting the stimulus, I'm talking numbers like 51-54% (most of these were taken in early February). And those were down from earlier when support was much much higher. So it's a bit untrue to say that the people didn't want it. It's also untrue to say that the people were wildly in favor of it.

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosaMSirhC View Post
    The American people didn't want a $787,000,000,000.00 "stimulus" package either but look how that worked out?

    The people in Washington don't give a darn about what "We the people" want. It is about what they want and serving their special interest groups.

    I am with virtually everyone else in this thread. Registration, no way, friend.

    Be Safe,

    NosaM
    I wasn't going to post this, but changed my mind since you used the phrase "we the people". I'm sure I'm about to get beaten...


    “It’s all about me”

    How can company CEO’s take millions in bonuses, and lay off employees as cost savings?
    “It’s all about me”

    How can company CEO’s take hundred of thousands or millions in perks on top of their salary and bonuses, and lay off employees as cost savings?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do US based companies feel the need to open facilities on other countries as cost savings? Who’s going to buy their products if US workers are unemployed? Who’s profiting in this situation? The CEO’s?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do oil companies feel the need to make 15+ billion dollars in profits? What if their profit was cut by 50%, or even 75%? What impact would that have on the price of fuel? On the US economy? On the world economy?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do politicians feel that the 1st amendment gives them the rights to mis-lead, mi-inform and outright lie? Why do politicians change their stance depending on where / who they are talking to? I look at a campaign, as a job application. If I lied on my application I would be fired, if a politician does this it is acceptable and expected.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do politicians swear to uphold the constitution and then ignore it?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why can’t I protect myself and family no matter where I am as the 2nd amendment states, but politicians are always protected? In some case they are protected by more armed people then some small countries have in their military.
    “It’s all about me”

    Does the 2nd amendment state this only applies to our political leaders? Are our political leaders more important to their families then I am? If so I would like one of them to call my children and tell them that they are more important to their children then their father is to them.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why does the news media feel the need to politicize, and sensationalize the news? When was the last time the news media reported as Sgt. Friday stated “Nothing, but the facts”.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why does our President and ex Vice President feel the need to attack each other in the media. Let the old regime go and let the new perform their job.
    “It’s all about me”

  14. #58
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    The statement "the American people do not want gun registration" is kind of subjective. It all depends on which side of the fence one is on. The American people that are and/or antis, do want it since they think it will protect them and society (not to mention those that believe in Marx, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Idi Amin, etc, etc, we all know the history behind their opinions on registration & citizens owning firearms).

    The American people that are sheepdogs, gun owners, and know their history are opposed to gun registration.
    Just ask the folks in UK and Aussies if registration won't lead to confiscation.
    Anyone that says registration isn't related to confiscation has their head in the sand....or somewhere else.
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    I wasn't going to post this, but changed my mind since you used the phrase "we the people". I'm sure I'm about to get beaten...


    “It’s all about me”

    How can company CEO’s take millions in bonuses, and lay off employees as cost savings?
    “It’s all about me”

    How can company CEO’s take hundred of thousands or millions in perks on top of their salary and bonuses, and lay off employees as cost savings?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do US based companies feel the need to open facilities on other countries as cost savings? Who’s going to buy their products if US workers are unemployed? Who’s profiting in this situation? The CEO’s?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do oil companies feel the need to make 15+ billion dollars in profits? What if their profit was cut by 50%, or even 75%? What impact would that have on the price of fuel? On the US economy? On the world economy?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do politicians feel that the 1st amendment gives them the rights to mis-lead, mi-inform and outright lie? Why do politicians change their stance depending on where / who they are talking to? I look at a campaign, as a job application. If I lied on my application I would be fired, if a politician does this it is acceptable and expected.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why do politicians swear to uphold the constitution and then ignore it?
    “It’s all about me”

    Why can’t I protect myself and family no matter where I am as the 2nd amendment states, but politicians are always protected? In some case they are protected by more armed people then some small countries have in their military.
    “It’s all about me”

    Does the 2nd amendment state this only applies to our political leaders? Are our political leaders more important to their families then I am? If so I would like one of them to call my children and tell them that they are more important to their children then their father is to them.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why does the news media feel the need to politicize, and sensationalize the news? When was the last time the news media reported as Sgt. Friday stated “Nothing, but the facts”.
    “It’s all about me”

    Why does our President and ex Vice President feel the need to attack each other in the media. Let the old regime go and let the new perform their job.
    “It’s all about me”
    "We The People" isn't someone being selfish, its from one of those documents from our country's founding days...remember?

    I fail to see how this fits in the thread
    I didn't think it was about selfishness which your post eludes to (and I won't begin to argue some of your points that are unfounded with no substance), just seems to me to be way off base for this discussion
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Now is the time to write your Senators, and tell them your opinion of such a treaty.

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