Student barred from creating SCCC chapter

Student barred from creating SCCC chapter

This is a discussion on Student barred from creating SCCC chapter within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; First Amendment Rights Trampled by Pittsburgh College after Student Advocates for Concealed Carry of Firearms on Campus May 27, 2009 FIRE Press Release PITTSBURGH, May ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Student barred from creating SCCC chapter

    First Amendment Rights Trampled by Pittsburgh College after Student Advocates for Concealed Carry of Firearms on Campus

    May 27, 2009

    FIRE Press Release

    PITTSBURGH, May 27, 2009A student who wants to form a gun-rights group at the Community College of Allegheny County (CCAC) has been threatened with disciplinary action for her efforts. Student Christine Brashier has turned to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) for help after reporting that administrators banned her informational pamphlets, ordered her to destroy all copies of them, and told her that further "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated.

    "CCAC has demonstrated a shocking lack of respect for the rights of free speech and free association," FIRE President Greg Lukianoff said. "Across the country, students are increasingly denied the First Amendment right to debate the Second Amendment. At CCAC, this censorship trend has reached a new low."

    In April, CCAC student Christine Brashier created pamphlets to distribute to her classmates encouraging them to join her in forming a chapter of the national Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC) organization at CCAC. The handbill states that the group "supports the legalization of concealed carry by licensed individuals on college campuses." She personally distributed copies of the flyer, which identified her as a "Campus Leader" of the effort to start the chapter.

    On April 24, Jean Snider, Student Development Specialist at CCAC's Allegheny Campus, summoned Brashier to a meeting that day with Snider and Yvonne Burns, Dean of Student Development. According to Brashier, the deans told Brashier that passing out her non-commercial pamphlets was prohibited as "solicitation." They told Brashier that trying to "sell" other students on the idea of the organization was prohibited.

    CCAC also told Brashier that the college must pre-approve any distribution of literature to fellow students, and that pamphlets like hers would not be approved, even insisting that Brashier destroy all copies of her pamphlet.

    Brashier reports that she was also interrogated about why she was distributing the pamphlets, whether she owned a licensed firearm and had ever brought it to campus (she has not), whether she carries a concealed firearm off campus, and whether she disagrees with the existing college policy banning concealed weapons on campus.

    When Brashier stated that she wanted to be able to discuss this policy freely on campus, she was told to stop doing so without the permission of the CCAC administration. Dean Burns reportedly said, "You may want to discuss this topic but the college does not, and you cannot make us." Brashier was then told to cease all activities related to her involvement with SCCC at CCAC and that such "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated.

    FIRE wrote CCAC President Alex Johnson on April 29 about these violations of Brashier's First Amendment speech and association rights, pointing out that her free speech in no way constituted solicitation, that CCAC is obligated to permit students to distribute literature and may not ban it on the basis of viewpoint or content, and that if CCAC recognizes student organizations at all, it must recognize an organization that supports concealed carry on campus. FIRE requested a response by May 13, and CCAC responded only by promising a reply from either CCAC or the Allegheny County Solicitor's office at some "reasonable" future time. Two weeks have passed since that promise, leaving the First Amendment in jeopardy at CCAC.

    "If it is true that trying to 'sell' students on an idea is prohibited as a matter of solicitation, virtually the entire enterprise of the college is prohibited," said Robert Shibley, FIRE Vice President. "All persuasive speech would have to be pre-approved by the college. CCAC must end this unjustified assault on its students' rights immediately."

    This incident is the worst and latest in a significant trend of punishing students for debating the Second Amendment in the wake of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings. At Central Connecticut State University, after a student gave a class presentation about concealed firearms on campus, his professor called the police. At Hamline University, a student was suspended, pending a mental health evaluation, after he advocated in an e-mail for concealed weapons on campus. The SCCC chapter at Tarrant County College in Texas has been prohibited, two years in a row, from holding an "empty holster protest." At Lone Star College near Houston, the Young Conservatives of Texas were censored and threatened with de-recognition when they distributed a humorous flyer listing "Top Ten Gun Safety Tips." Lone Star's general counsel suggested that even a "mention of firearms and weapons" is inherently a "material interference" with the school's operations.

    FIRE is a nonprofit educational foundation that unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals from across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, due process, freedom of expression, academic freedom, and rights of conscience at our nation's colleges and universities. FIRE's efforts to preserve liberty on campuses across America are described at thefire.org.

    FIRE - First Amendment Rights Trampled by Pittsburgh College after Student Advocates for Concealed Carry of Firearms on Campus


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Were she looking to evaluate the interest in the International Jugglers' Association, or Women Against Being Raped And Attacked On Campus discussion group, she almost certainly wouldn't have been jumped on by the administration. Pretty blatant, that.

    What did Jane learn at school today? All citizens are equal ... but some citizens are more equal than others. While the 1A and 2A may apply to some, they don't apply equally strongly to students attending that college.

    She's in for a fight with some dangerous consequences to her potential education (aka, the diploma from her chosen college). I hope she's willing to take on the fight, for everyone's sake.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    There is but one problem.

    If that campus is privately owned then there is a catch.

    The 1A and 2A and rest of the A's shouldn't be denied, but on campus she may not be legally allowed to do what she is doing. There is no law that sais' she can't do this off campus sitting right outside the parking lot.

    The problem once again is private vs. public.

    I am not defending that scumbag college either.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    There is but one problem.

    If that campus is privately owned then there is a catch.
    No catch:

    STATE FUNDING: $24.2 MILLION.
    COUNTY FUNDING: $19.3 MILLION.
    Tuition/fees: $24.3 million.
    Federal grants: $4.7 million.
    Financial aid: $9.1 million


    By this standard, it's a publicly-funded school.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
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    I consider the threats by the school to be pure....
    I think she should contact a pro-gun 1A-2A attorney and consider getting a 'full ride' benefit package...
    She should back those 'rodents' right back into their holes.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

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    Member Array smotta's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a way of getting contact information for this girl. I think she should get all the support she can at this very important junction. I hope she stands up and fights.

    -Concerned FL College Student
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

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    jfl
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    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    Disgusting !!!

    I've seen it happen in Europe; in the late 1930s, the socialists infiltrated the education system and had a stronghold by the 1950's; not surprisingly, one generation later, socialist ideology was prevalent in most european countries.

    It is a dangerous slope, and we are sliding faster and faster.

    Even on this forum, I am appalled at the number of young CCW who are afraid to be "made" as if it was "bad" to have a gun, like some kind of a vice ...
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfl View Post
    Even on this forum, I am appalled at the number of young CCW who are afraid to be "made" as if it was "bad" to have a gun, like some kind of a vice ...
    I see it the other way. I am appalled at the number of people in society who exact punishment from those who dare carry the means to defend against crime, as if it were some kind of vice. With the risks high for many folks (ie, getting ejected from university, fired from a job, whatever other sort of ostracizing is heaped on them), it's understandable why many take the tack that it's nobody's business to interfere in private business.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Outrageous!

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    Man, this ticks me off. Yet one more reason I didn't do college.
    Glock 27

    "Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot."

  11. #11
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Okay then, why couldn't she just have stickers, magnets and signage made up to post on her vehicle? They cannot stop that, right??

    I noticed today at school that nearly every administrator in the building where I attended class today had an Obama sticker up on their door. Is this acceptable? These were not of their car or on their person BUT ON THE DOOR TO THEIR OFFICE!!! SCHOOL PROPERTY!!! And yes, mine is defeinitely a public institution.


    Thoughts???
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

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    Member Array Red82's Avatar
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    She was going to a community college and not a private institution. Unless Community colleges are different there They are implemented by the state to make it easier for everybody to get an education.

    I think the NRA will have a blast with this.
    Protection is a responsibility not just a right.

  13. #13
    Member Array UW Dawg's Avatar
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    Yvonne E. Burns
    Dean of Student Development
    yburns@ccac.edu

    Alex Johnson
    President
    ajohnson@ccac.edu

    Give them a piece of your mind.

  14. #14
    Member Array Jason Rogers's Avatar
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    My email to all the Deans and heads of security

    Dear Dean,

    After you have read my letter I would truly enjoy reading your thoughtful reply. Perhaps you could even humor me with a point by point rebuttal.

    On April 24, Jean Snider, Student Development Specialist at CCAC's Allegheny Campus, summoned Brashier to a meeting that day with Snider and Yvonne Burns, Dean of Student Development. According to Brashier, the deans told Brashier that passing out her non-commercial pamphlets was prohibited as "solicitation." They told Brashier that trying to "sell" other students on the idea of the organization was prohibited.

    CCAC also told Brashier that the college must pre-approve any distribution of literature to fellow students, and that pamphlets like hers would not be approved, even insisting that Brashier destroy all copies of her pamphlet.

    Brashier reports that she was also interrogated about why she was distributing the pamphlets, whether she owned a licensed firearm and had ever brought it to campus (she has not), whether she carries a concealed firearm off campus, and whether she disagrees with the existing college policy banning concealed weapons on campus.

    When Brashier stated that she wanted to be able to discuss this policy freely on campus, she was told to stop doing so without the permission of the CCAC administration. Dean Burns reportedly said, "You may want to discuss this topic but the college does not, and you cannot make us." Brashier was then told to cease all activities related to her involvement with SCCC at CCAC and that such "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated.

    The open or concealed carry of a firearm at your institution is not prohibited by any law in the Commonwealth. It is CCAC's reckless policy that puts lives in danger as it is a well known fact that "Gun Free Zones" attract mass murderers.


    Before concealed handgun laws were passed throughout the United States , opponents claimed that such laws would turn disputes over parking spaces and traffic accidents into shootings. This did not prove to be the case. The same responsible adults--age twenty-one and above--now asking to be allowed to carry their concealed handguns on college campuses are already allowed to do so virtually everywhere else they go--office buildings, shopping malls, movie theaters, grocery stores, banks, etc.

    They clearly do not let their emotions get the better of them in other environments; therefore, no less should be expected of them on college campuses. In most states CHL/CCW holders have been educated and tested on both the basic rules of gun safety and the laws pertaining to carrying a concealed handgun, threatening to use deadly force, and using deadly force. They have also passed proficiency (shooting) test at a firing range.

    Since the fall semester of 2006, state law in Utah has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of all public colleges. Also, concealed carry has been allowed for several years at both Colorado State University ( Fort Collins , CO ) and Blue Ridge Community College ( Weyers Cave , VA ). This has yet to result in a single act of violence at any of these schools. Numerous studies, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to be arrested for violent crimes.

    College students can already legally purchase firearms, and every state that provides for legalized concealed carry has statutes prohibiting license holders from carrying while under the influence. Legalizing concealed carry on college campuses would neither put guns into the hands of more college students nor make it legal for a person to carry a firearm while under the influence.

    What is worse than allowing an execution-style massacre to continue uncontested?

    How can any reasonable action with the potential to stop or slow a deranged killer intent on slaughtering victim after victim be considered 'worse' than allowing that killer to continue undeterred?

    Citizens with concealed handgun licenses are not vigilantes. They carry their concealed handguns as a means of getting themselves out of harm's way, not as an excuse to go chasing after bad guys. Whereas police shooting statistics involve scenarios such as pursuits down dark alleys and armed standoffs with assailants barricaded inside buildings, most civilian shootings
    happen at pointblank range. In the Luby's Cafeteria massacre, the Columbine High School massacre, and the Virginia Tech massacre, the assailants moved slowly and methodically, shooting their victims from pointblank range. A person doesn't have to be a deadeye shot to defend himself or herself against an assailant standing only a few feet away. It is highly unlikely that an exchange of gunfire between an armed citizen and a deranged killer would lead to more lives lost than would simply allowing an onslaught of execution-style murders to continue unchecked. Contrary to what the movies might have us believe, most real-world shootouts last less than ten seconds. Even the real Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, a shootout involving nine armed participants, lasted only about thirty seconds and ended with only three of the participants being killed. It is unlikely that an exchange of gunfire between an armed assailant and an armed citizen would last more than a couple of seconds before one or both parties were disabled. And if the
    assailant were disabled, he would be unable to do any more harm.

    To quote Thomas Jefferson:

    "False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a
    thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling
    inconvenience; that would take fire from men because
    it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that
    has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws
    that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a
    nature. They disarm only those who are neither
    inclined nor determined to commit crime."

    Even the CDC cannot bolster the gun prohibition position:

    First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of
    Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
    Findings from the Task Force on Community Preventive
    Services

    Summary

    During 2000--2002, the Task Force on Community
    Preventive Services (the Task Force), an independent
    nonfederal task force, conducted a systematic review
    of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of
    firearms laws in preventing violence, including
    violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury. The
    following laws were evaluated: bans on specified
    firearms or ammunition, restrictions on firearm
    acquisition, waiting periods for firearm acquisition,
    firearm registration and licensing of firearm owners,
    "shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws, child
    access prevention laws, zero tolerance laws for
    firearms in schools, and combinations of firearms
    laws. The Task Force found insufficient evidence to
    determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms
    laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent
    outcomes. This report briefly describes how the
    reviews were conducted, summarizes the Task Force
    findings, and provides information regarding needs for
    future research.
    First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
    Licensed concealed carry or the unlicensed carrying of a handgun openly is not prohibited by law at your institution.


    I leave you with a few quotes.

    Respectfully, Jason M. Rogers

    "I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I
    thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict.
    That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought
    would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think
    it's worked out well, and that says good things about
    the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." --
    Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police
    Association, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97

    "I ... [felt] that such legislation present[ed] a
    clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by
    placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong.
    Our experience in Harris County , and indeed statewide,
    has proven my fears absolutely groundless." -- Harris
    County [ Texas ] District Attorney John Holmes, Dallas
    Morning News, 12/23/97

    "Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined
    or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant
    surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." --
    Fairfax County , VA , Police Major Bill Brown,
    Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97

    "I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." --
    Arlington County, VA, Police Detective Paul Larson,
    Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97

    "The concerns I had - with more guns on the street,
    folks may be more apt to square off against one
    another with weapons - we haven't experienced that."
    -- Charlotte-Mecklenburg , NC , Police Chief Dennis
    Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97

    "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it
    would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
    -Dalai Lama
    "The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness." -Robert A. Heinlein

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