Hawaii to ban pocket knives - Page 2

Hawaii to ban pocket knives

This is a discussion on Hawaii to ban pocket knives within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I do not know how anyone can work or go through their daily life without a good pocket knife. I could switch to a box ...

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Thread: Hawaii to ban pocket knives

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I do not know how anyone can work or go through their daily life without a good pocket knife. I could switch to a box cutter, which works well for some jobs, including use by terrorists to highjack airliners, but I prefer a normal pocket knife. After more than half a century of carrying one (or more likely two), I have not as yet sliced and diced any of my fellow citizens, so what is the problem???
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan


  2. #17
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    For the last 50++ years I have never left home without my Swiss Army knife ; it has served me well in many occasions.
    However, I cannot remember wounding and killing anybody with it; of course, at my age the memory is not that good .

    Seriously, I am appalled that people who are supposed to govern us could be so stupid ... unreal ... what happened to common sense ???
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  3. #18
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    Time to carry a Rambo knife! Or are they already illegal?

    OT: Did Thomas Magnum have a permit or was he breaking the law when he stuffed the 1911 in his pants and went about town?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    No more Leatherman or Gerbers either. No more pockettools for you guys.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
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  5. #20
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    Who needs Hawaii? There's plenty of beaches in Texas and palm trees in Florida.
    There's volcanic rock in New Mexico and lots of sand in Utah and Arizona. Besides, insanity might be contagious.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  6. #21
    Member Array Rolling Oaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    Who needs Hawaii? There's plenty of beaches in Texas and palm trees in Florida.
    There's volcanic rock in New Mexico and lots of sand in Utah and Arizona. Besides, insanity might be contagious.
    Congress has the power to admit states to the union.

    In some legal circles some would argue that the Federal Congress has the authority to remove them as well.

    Just saying.
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.

  7. #22
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
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    And I thought Hawaii was a United States state, not a part of the UK. I guess we will see the name being changed back to The Sandwich Islands now.

  8. #23
    Member Array Chroode's Avatar
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    Unhappy This was their response

    Thank you for your comments.

    However, some additional information might be helpful for you to know –

    Here is a link to the ‘status,’ or ‘history’ sheet for 2009’s SB126: Measure History. If you open that document, you’ll note that the ‘introducer,’ Senator Ihara, has b/r after his name. That means that he introduced the bill by request, meaning that an individual – probably a constituent – asked him to introduce the bill. Bills are often introduced by request as a courtesy on behalf of a constituent; the term sometimes denotes that the legislator isn’t necessarily supportive of its content.

    Also, look at the history of SB126. You’ll see that it was introduced, passed first reading, and given a committee assignment. That’s all that happened to it. This set of occurrences happens to all bills which are introduced. Notice too, that SB126 never got a hearing. In other words, the Senate’s Judiciary and Government Operations (JGO) chose not to consider the bill. Since our legislature ended five weeks ago, I don’t think you’ll have to worry about your pocket knives becoming illegal in Hawaii. (Technically, this bill is still alive, since 2009 was the first year of a 2-year legislative cycle. So it could, theoretically, still be considered next year, but that is highly highly unlikely.)

    I am bemused, I must confess, that a retired New York policeman would be afraid to come to Hawaii because we have such strict gun control laws here, considering how much safer Hawaii is than most other states. Or at least, that was my assumption. I decided to do a bit of research before I responded to you, because it’s never a good idea to operate on the basis of assumptions.

    So I performed a public records search related to ‘crime’ in Hawaii and New York. Here are links to some relevant statistics for 2005:

    Hawaii Crime Statistics

    New York Crime Statistics

    If you open those documents, you’ll see that New York had one crime for every 39.15 people that year. Hawaii, by contrast, had one crime for every 19.81 people. This supports your contention that Hawaii is not a safe place, relative to New York.

    But dig just a teeny bit deeper, and you’ll find some information that broadens our information base:

    Hawaii Crime Statistics for 2005

    With a total population of 1,275,194, Hawaii had a total crime index of 64,368 or 1 crime for every 19.81 people.

    Of which 5.05% (3,253) were of a violent nature while 94.95% (61,115) were crimes against property.

    Violent Crimes

    Murders
    24

    Forced Rape
    343

    Robbery
    1,001

    Aggravated Assault
    1,885

    Crimes Against Property

    Burglary
    9,792

    Larceny & Theft
    42,188

    Vehicle Theft
    9,135

    Crime Rank
    based on number of crimes per capita
    #46

    Safety Rank
    based on number of violent crimes per capita
    #10

    *States are ranked from #1 (best) to #51 (worst) for each of the 50 states, including District of Columbia.

    Here is the corresponding information for New York:

    New York Crime Statistics for 2005

    With a total population of 19,254,630, New York had a total crime index of 491,829 or 1 crime for every 39.15 people.

    Of which 17.45% (85,839) were of a violent nature while 82.55% (405,990) were crimes against property.

    Violent Crimes

    Murders
    874

    Forced Rape
    3,636

    Robbery
    35,179

    Aggravated Assault
    46,150

    Crimes Against Property

    Burglary
    68,034

    Larceny & Theft
    302,220

    Vehicle Theft
    35,736

    Crime Rank
    based on number of crimes per capita
    #6

    Safety Rank
    based on number of violent crimes per capita
    #30

    *States are ranked from #1 (best) to #51 (worst) for each of the 50 states, including District of Columbia.

    According to this information, Hawaii ranked 46th (of 51) in the nation for crimes, while New York was 6th in the nation.

    Of the crimes committed here, 5.05% were violent. New York’s violent crimes, meanwhile, accounted for 17.45%, more than 3 times Hawaii’s percentage.


    Likewise, Hawaii was in 10th place for safety (1st place being the safest region), while New York ranked 30th, (51 being the most dangerous), placing well into the bottom half of the rankings.

    So perhaps you might want to visit anyway. Feel free to bring your pocket knife if you come – you never know when you might want to open a bottle of wine for a picnic with your wife, or perhaps slice open the cellophane wrapping on a Hawaiian music CD.

    I hope this is helpful information.

    Public Access Room (PAR)

    A Division of the Legislative Reference Bureau (LRB)

    Hawaii State Legislature

    State Capitol, Room 401

    415 S. Beretania St.

    Honolulu, Hawaii 96813

    Phone: 808/587-0478*

    TTY: 808/587-0749

    Fax: 808/587-0793

    Email: par@capitol.hawaii.gov

    Website: Hawaii Legislature's Public Access Room

    * Toll Free from All Islands

    Hawai'i..........974-4000, ext. 7-0478

    Maui..............984-2400, ext. 7-0478

    Kaua'i............274-3141, ext. 7-0478

    Moloka'i/Lana'i...(800) 468-4644, ext. 7-0478

    Oahu..............587-0478

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    For violent person crimes, the crime rate (per 100K people) in New York averages a bit worse than the U.S. national average, and about twice that of Hawaii.


    Hawaii
    1960-2007
    Crime Rates per 100,000 population
    as reported by U.S. DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime & Justice Data Online

    Year Population Viol Murder Rape Robbery AgAssault
    1960 632,772 21.8 2.4 3.3 10.9 5.2
    1961 657,000 24.5 2.3 3.8 10.7 7.8
    1962 693,000 36.9 2.9 2.5 17.3 14.3
    1963 694,000 31.0 1.7 2.6 11.5 15.1
    1964 701,000 82.0 2.1 2.6 13.6 63.8
    1965 711,000 69.1 3.2 .8 18.7 46.3
    1966 718,000 83.3 2.9 4.9 21.6 53.9
    1967 739,000 80.0 2.4 5.0 19.8 52.8
    1968 778,000 85.1 2.8 7.2 22.6 52.4
    1969 794,000 86.1 3.4 12.2 35.5 35.0
    1970 769,913 121.8 3.6 11.8 63.3 43.1
    1971 789,000 231.9 5.3 17.5 93.0 116.1
    1972 809,000 155.5 6.8 21.3 55.4 72.1
    1973 832,000 155.6 5.3 20.2 83.7 46.5
    1974 847,000 208.0 8.3 26.1 121.6 52.1
    1975 865,000 218.4 7.7 24.7 127.6 58.3
    1976 887,000 229.3 6.2 23.6 133.0 66.5
    1977 895,000 224.8 7.2 25.5 128.0 64.1
    1978 897,000 270.1 6.7 25.9 173.6 64.0
    1979 915,000 289.7 7.2 32.3 184.5 65.7
    1980 964,680 299.5 8.7 34.7 190.2 65.8
    1981 979,000 247.6 4.8 34.7 148.4 59.7
    1982 994,000 255.7 3.1 34.4 156.9 61.3
    1983 1,023,000 252.1 5.6 29.4 130.0 87.1
    1984 1,039,000 231.9 3.3 30.2 115.9 82.5
    1985 1,054,000 219.4 4.1 29.4 99.4 86.5
    1986 1,062,000 245.2 4.8 31.0 106.3 103.1
    1987 1,083,000 263.3 4.8 36.3 98.0 124.2
    1988 1,093,000 257.1 4.0 32.5 84.1 136.5
    1989 1,112,000 270.1 4.8 44.6 83.2 137.6
    1990 1,108,229 280.9 4.0 32.5 91.4 153.0
    1991 1,135,000 241.8 4.0 33.0 86.9 117.9
    1992 1,160,000 258.4 3.6 37.9 99.2 117.7
    1993 1,172,000 261.2 3.8 33.6 103.6 120.1
    1994 1,179,000 262.2 4.2 30.4 103.6 123.9
    1995 1,187,000 295.6 4.7 28.3 130.8 131.8
    1996 1,184,000 280.6 3.4 27.5 135.6 114.0
    1997 1,187,000 277.9 4.0 31.3 118.2 124.5
    1998 1,193,000 246.9 2.0 29.5 102.7 112.7
    1999 1,185,000 235.0 3.7 29.9 88.1 113.3
    2000 1,211,537 243.8 2.9 28.6 92.7 119.7
    2001 1,224,398 254.6 2.6 33.4 93.3 125.3
    2002 1,240,663 262.9 1.9 30.0 97.5 133.5
    2003 1,248,755 272.3 1.8 29.4 93.5 147.6
    2004 1,262,124 254.6 2.6 26.4 74.8 150.8
    2005 1,273,278 256.0 1.9 26.9 78.6 148.0
    2006 1,285,498 281.2 1.6 27.6 88.9 163.0
    2007 1,283,388 272.8 1.7 25.4 86.1 159.6


    New York
    1960-2007
    Crime Rates per 100,000 population
    as reported by U.S. DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime & Justice Data Online

    Year Population Viol Murder Rape Robbery AgAssault
    1965 18,073,000 325.4 4.6 12.8 155.9 152.0
    1966 18,258,000 342.6 4.8 13.4 164.8 159.6
    1967 18,336,000 409.7 5.4 14.5 219.3 170.5
    1968 18,113,000 543.9 6.5 14.0 330.5 192.9
    1969 18,321,000 577.9 7.2 15.8 353.4 201.4
    1970 18,190,740 685.0 7.9 15.8 446.1 215.2
    1971 18,391,000 788.7 9.9 17.5 531.1 230.1
    1972 18,366,000 754.3 11.0 22.9 470.4 250.1
    1973 18,265,000 741.7 11.2 26.6 442.3 261.6
    1974 18,111,000 803.0 10.6 28.9 479.3 284.1
    1975 18,120,000 856.4 11.0 28.1 516.0 301.3
    1976 18,084,000 868.1 10.9 25.8 529.3 302.1
    1977 17,924,000 831.8 10.7 29.4 472.6 319.1
    1978 17,748,000 841.0 10.3 29.1 472.1 329.5
    1979 17,649,000 917.4 11.9 30.6 529.6 345.3
    1980 17,506,690 1,029 12.7 30.9 641.3 344.6
    1981 17,594,000 1,069 12.3 31.1 684.0 342.1
    1982 17,659,000 990.1 11.4 29.2 610.7 338.7
    1983 17,667,000 914.1 11.1 30.0 536.5 336.5
    1984 17,735,000 914.3 10.1 31.6 506.9 365.8
    1985 17,783,000 929.9 9.5 32.1 504.4 383.9
    1986 17,772,000 985.9 10.7 30.5 514.1 430.6
    1987 17,825,000 1,008 11.3 31.1 503.3 462.4
    1988 17,898,000 1,097 12.5 30.6 544.4 509.8
    1989 17,950,000 1,131 12.5 29.2 579.3 510.1
    1990 17,990,455 1,180 14.5 29.8 624.7 512.0
    1991 18,058,000 1,163 14.2 28.2 622.1 499.4
    1992 18,119,000 1,122 13.2 28.4 596.9 483.5
    1993 18,197,000 1,073 13.3 27.5 561.2 471.5
    1994 18,169,000 965.6 11.1 25.9 476.7 451.9
    1995 18,136,000 841.9 8.5 23.7 399.7 410.0
    1996 18,185,000 727.0 7.4 23.0 340.0 356.7
    1997 18,137,000 688.6 6.0 22.5 309.3 350.8
    1998 18,175,000 637.8 5.1 21.1 270.3 341.3
    1999 18,197,000 588.8 5.0 19.6 240.8 323.5
    2000 18,976,457 553.9 5.0 18.6 213.6 316.7
    2001 19,011,378 516.0 5.0 18.7 192.3 300.0
    2002 19,134,293 496.6 4.8 20.3 191.6 280.0
    2003 19,212,425 465.8 4.9 19.6 186.3 255.0
    2004 19,280,727 440.4 4.6 18.7 173.8 243.3
    2005 19,315,721 444.0 4.5 18.8 182.1 238.9
    2006 19,306,183 434.9 4.8 16.4 178.6 235.1
    2007 19,297,729 414.1 4.2 15.2 161.1 233.7


    United States
    1960-2007
    Crime Rates per 100,000 population
    as reported by U.S. DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime & Justice Data Online

    Year Population Viol Murder Rape Robbery AgAssault
    1960 179,323,175 160.9 5.1 9.6 60.1 86.1
    1961 182,992,000 158.1 4.8 9.4 58.3 85.7
    1962 185,771,000 162.3 4.6 9.4 59.7 88.6
    1963 188,483,000 168.2 4.6 9.4 61.8 92.4
    1964 191,141,000 190.6 4.9 11.2 68.2 106.2
    1965 193,526,000 200.2 5.1 12.1 71.7 111.3
    1966 195,576,000 220.0 5.6 13.2 80.8 120.3
    1967 197,457,000 253.2 6.2 14.0 102.8 130.2
    1968 199,399,000 298.4 6.9 15.9 131.8 143.8
    1969 201,385,000 328.7 7.3 18.5 148.4 154.5
    1970 203,235,298 363.5 7.9 18.7 172.1 164.8
    1971 206,212,000 396.0 8.6 20.5 188.0 178.8
    1972 208,230,000 401.0 9.0 22.5 180.7 188.8
    1973 209,851,000 417.4 9.4 24.5 183.1 200.5
    1974 211,392,000 461.1 9.8 26.2 209.3 215.8
    1975 213,124,000 487.8 9.6 26.3 220.8 231.1
    1976 214,659,000 467.8 8.7 26.6 199.3 233.2
    1977 216,332,000 475.9 8.8 29.4 190.7 247.0
    1978 218,059,000 497.8 9.0 31.0 195.8 262.1
    1979 220,099,000 548.9 9.8 34.7 218.4 286.0
    1980 225,349,264 596.6 10.2 36.8 251.1 298.5
    1981 229,146,000 594.3 9.8 36.0 258.7 289.7
    1982 231,534,000 571.1 9.1 34.0 238.9 289.1
    1983 233,981,000 537.7 8.3 33.7 216.5 279.2
    1984 236,158,000 539.2 7.9 35.7 205.4 290.2
    1985 238,740,000 556.6 8.0 37.1 208.5 302.9
    1986 241,077,000 617.7 8.5 37.9 225.1 346.1
    1987 243,400,000 609.7 8.3 37.4 212.7 351.3
    1988 245,807,000 637.2 8.4 37.6 220.9 370.2
    1989 248,239,000 663.1 8.7 38.1 233.0 383.4
    1990 248,709,873 731.8 9.4 41.2 257.0 424.1
    1991 252,177,000 758.1 9.8 42.3 272.7 433.3
    1992 255,082,000 757.5 9.3 42.8 263.6 441.8
    1993 257,908,000 746.8 9.5 41.1 255.9 440.3
    1994 260,341,000 713.6 9.0 39.3 237.7 427.6
    1995 262,755,000 684.6 8.2 37.1 220.9 418.3
    1996 265,284,000 636.5 7.4 36.3 201.9 390.9
    1997 267,637,000 610.8 6.8 35.9 186.1 382.0
    1998 270,296,000 567.5 6.3 34.5 165.4 361.3
    1999 272,691,000 523.0 5.7 32.8 150.1 334.3
    2000 281,421,906 506.5 5.5 32.0 145.0 324.0
    2001 284,796,887 504.4 5.6 31.8 148.5 318.5
    2002 287,973,924 494.4 5.6 33.1 146.1 309.5
    2003 290,788,976 475.8 5.7 32.3 142.5 295.4
    2004 293,656,842 463.2 5.5 32.4 136.7 288.6
    2005 296,507,061 469.0 5.6 31.8 140.8 290.8
    2006 299,398,484 473.6 5.7 31.0 149.4 287.5
    2007 301,621,157 466.9 5.6 30.0 147.6 283.8

    Notes: When data are unavailable, the cells are blank or the year is not presented. State offense totals are based on data from all reporting agencies and estimates for unreported areas.

    # The murder and nonnegligent homicides that occurred as a result of the events of September 11, 2001 are not included.

    Sources: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports as prepared by the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  10. #25
    Member Array Chroode's Avatar
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    Cool I just sent this as my response

    You didn’t print your name,

    But whom ever you are, thank you for your response. Thank you for also letting me know that this ridiculous proposal has died.

    As to your comment about me being “afraid”. There is a difference in being “afraid” and being “cautious” (showing, using, or characterized by caution: a cautious man; To be cautious is often to show wisdom).

    Having been a police officer and a sergeant, I know that statistics means nothing to the person that is having a crime such as assault, rape, or murder occurring to them at the time. A police response of 10 minutes, 5 minutes, or even 2 minutes, does nothing to stop the feeling of pain, and knowledge of impending death to a person being struck, stabbed, or shot. As a famous court decision has shown, the police DO NOT have a duty to protect citizens. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

    Crime happens every where, since it has in the beginning of time. Criminals will use whatever tools are available to them to inflict injury to gain their objective. They do not follow rules, laws, or moral standards. The law abiding respectful persons, that are productive to society, do follow the rules and laws that govern them. To make or keep laws that restrict these abiding souls from being able to repel the criminal element, condemns them to become one of those very same statistics that you quoted.

    Danger faces a person somewhere at some time in their life, and just like death we don’t know when that will be. Whether a person is in a large metropolitan city or in the woods with nobody for miles, danger exists, from a criminal or from a wild animal. Taking precautions such as keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, and wearing a seatbelt while driving, I like thousand of others chose to carry a gun to protect ourselves and our families from harm. We also will purposely avoid those areas which restrict our ability to have that protection. Thus it brings me back to my original e-mail, I will not visit Hawaii if my wife and I cannot LEAGALLY carry our guns for protection.

    The discussion of this very subject, is taking place on at least to pro-gun forums that are accessed and read by thousands. I would hope that the legislators of Hawaii will listen to the people who live and visit your state instead of a few uniformed people who feel that they can control crime with a piece of paper.

    Signed xxxxx

    "A citizen who shirks his duty to contribute to the security of his community is little better than the criminal who threatens it."

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Fantastic letter.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Michael Myers and Norman Bates probably would support this bill.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  13. #28
    Member Array IronMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I wonder what type of 'protections' the Hawaiian legislators allow themselves to have?
    I'm sure that they are immune from such nonsense!
    I guess my stone warclub is out of the question
    It is pardonable to be defeated but never surprised.
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  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Has there been an increase in knife violence? My wife's sister (& family) were just station in HI. My brother-in-law is a bit of a gun nut. Every time they talk about how great HI is, 20% of the time I mouth off about their gun laws. I would never live in HI, and one reason in gunlaws. Can't wait to mention this.

    Side note: I was in HI a while back (month or so). Before I went, I purchased 2 chaep $1.00 pocket knives from my local army / navy surplus. Cheap plastic with around 1.5" metal blade. I know not much, but going from armed to unarmed, I wanted something, and in case it was conficated, I did not want to lose a good knife.

    I had one in my checked luggage. During travel via plane I carried one in my pocket. When I went through security, I emptied my pockets, and not once (including trips between islands) did a problem arise. I was even patted down, emptied pockets, carry on searched, once at the terminal (from Portland to Honolulu). Other then my being postponed entry, I still own 2 cheap pocket knifes.

    I'm not sure if they ever noticed the knife, and I don't know if what I did was illegal or not. Not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, just providing my experience.
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  15. #30
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    What about fixed blade open carry? Maybe there will be a run on machete holsters. How ridiculous all this is. Hows a boy suppose to bust a coconut?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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