Poor people shouldn't have guns - Page 2

Poor people shouldn't have guns

This is a discussion on Poor people shouldn't have guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ghost tracker Next they'll decide bald, fat people shouldn't have guns. Or people with Toyota pickup trucks shouldn't have guns. Or left-handed ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Next they'll decide bald, fat people shouldn't have guns. Or people with Toyota pickup trucks shouldn't have guns. Or left-handed people shouldn't have guns!
    Oh my gosh, that's me! I guess I'll have to turn in all my guns!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin


  2. #17
    New Member Array militiaman's Avatar
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    Cool Gun Ban

    If people do not stand up then the Obama administration with dead fish Raum and the evil progressives will eventually attempt to pass legislation making it illegal to even posess any type of gun!

    America's Republic Militia preface

    Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

    If you will wake up and defend your rights you are a patriot!

    Do not even think this is not comming!

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    For arguements sake, I am going to agree with Mr. Cleaver, but not necessarily based on his thinking.

    If your in public housing, maybe you don't need a gun simply because if you can't feed/cloth/house yourself you don't need to be spending money on anything but the basic necessities for your life. . . . If your getting help from the public, then you don't need any luxury items at all.
    So, there is the argument: Gun ownership is merely a "luxury", and defense of self and family is not a basic necessity. The Brady Group makes this same point. No one really "needs" a gun.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I have often wondered how making me pay a fee to own or carry a gun is any different than the old poll taxes? We have put owning certain types of firearms out of the reach of anyone who is lacking the funds. We are no different than the people back then were. We just call it by a different name.

    Michael

  5. #20
    Member Array lenf45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    As a left handed overweight half bald guy I think you are right about them Toyota guys..........

  6. #21
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    re: Holger

    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    I also disagree with Hopyard about something he said, too. I agree that being poor does NOT mean one is lazy, shiftless or anything of the sort. It doesn't, however, alleviate the obligation to personal responsibility.
    I didn't say that it did. I said that too many people think the poor are poor because they lack personal responsibility. That is certainly true in some cases, but it is also certainly untrue in very many instances.

    My aunt, her husband and two kids lived in public housing in the South Bronx for many years. Both worked. And with both working they still could not bring in enough money to take care of themselves. I don't know what more anyone could have expected of them. And, to make it clear, my uncle had enlisted in the British army when WWII started, and fought throughout the long years of the war. He was a bright man as well. It just took them about 10 or more years to get on their feet, and life didn't improve much until about 1960.

    There were no drugs and there was no alcohol in the game. There was no mental illness involved,. There was no laziness at work. There were just insufficient opportunities, bad luck, and lost years serving in the military.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    For arguements sake, I am going to agree with Mr. Cleaver, but not necessarily based on his thinking.

    No, I don't want to take anyone's guns away from them personally.

    If your in public housing, maybe you don't need a gun simply because if you can't feed/cloth/house yourself you don't need to be spending
    What they need or want is none of my business, its their money. I hate the need argument. Only my parents had the right to tell me what I needed.

    Our society has decided to give people money to spend as they please. They are afterall free citizens with all the rights everyone else has. We gave them the money. Its theirs now. Now if we want to place restrictions I have no problem with vouchers.

    Michael

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Farron,

    Not all public assistance programs are giveaways.
    Some are subsidized housing and others today are reduced mortgage, delayed interest, and/or include FHA backed and insured housing that a buyer can buy into but is not allowed to sell for a set horizon and/or may not sell but at a set future price and/or upon sale a refund back of a set percentage of the sale plus administration fees is returned to the program office as a lien.
    City and towns all over America offer such programs to attract and/or keep employees such as teachers, police, fire, etc.

    As well people fall on to hard times such as now.
    They bought and own out right material product from prior better times only to later find themself in a struggle for a term. Term being a year to a decade or even more as was the case with my own experience. My own parents were working middle class my mom being a bank teller and dad a cop...before my sister was born when I was three and shortly after that he being badly injured on the job. The rest was and is a real sad story of America seen from a sideways view. That was '73. My parents didn't recover and get out from under until '89. I was born in '70. You do the math.
    The townhouse my parents live in to this day was purchased via a county mandated low interest with stipulations financing program in MD toward lower income non-section 8 housing for working poor and the under employed. They paid off the note last fall. They were not first time buyers and had prior when I was born lived in what is still to this day a nicer working middle class neighborhood.

    Stuff happens to people for all manner of reasons.
    People should not have it held against them that they happened to own/possess stuff prior to their life going sideways.
    And most definitely a persons civil liberties, constitutional guarantees, and basic human rights should not be suspended simply because life occurred to them and they happen to find themself in a position of need.

    Yes there are people out there who abuse 'the system'.
    Folk who grab on and have no intention to let go living off of the back of social welfare programs as human ticks, to grow fat and spawn their own children into same to become as same. And that commonly makes the news.
    But what is less so common a news feature but is very much real are the great numbers of people who are very much appreciative of there being such programs available during a time of need be it personal or community and even regional related. They suffer and they try and they work hard and they get back up on to their own two feet, or they make it so that their children can do so...and repay the debt the incurred by doing well enough if not better in life to not need such programs of support.
    Rarely ever are those very many people featured, discussed, or remembered.

    - Janq was fed via the DC Food Bank and Manna (MD), and carried a knife that had some $ value for self defense

    "...If you live in a high-crime area (and not necessarily public housing), a $250 .38 should not be considered a luxury item, but a necessity." - Holger
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #24
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    I was poor and struggling not that long ago. Living below the poverty line sucks, and having to scrape up $152.50 for a CHP was not very easy; disposable income was hard to come by. I do not see how I am magically more responsible now that I am out of that situation.

    It is a shame Cleaver was elected to the post, but Missouri can vote him out pretty soon, and will if he keeps up this nonsense.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    ...But since "poor" has been used as a codeword for black or Hispanic, let's stand that on its' head... what if you are poor white trash, shoeless and illiterate in the most remote part of Appalachia... should the poor in Carbuncle, West Virginia be denied arms as well...?
    BINGO! ^^

    Whole complete towns and even counties receive social assistance and public funded aid dollars. Seriously, across much of America especially within the heartland.

    Would it be okay to disarm them too or make them choose between guns & ammo in the home for defense and hunting so as to put meat on the table...or give it over in exchange for box milk and baby formula.

    To ask muchless demand/require a person to do so is wrong, and un-American too.

    Yes some folks might by chance actually own 556 or an AR (either costing these days ~$1.4K) or two shotguns or even three handguns all totaling same in market value as used.
    Again things occur and rarely do people choose the timing and almost no one is insulated contrary to what persons might believe.

    We all are a medical emergency, divorce, layoff, or natural disaster away from poverty and public assistance.
    Just ask most anyone, who is or has been 'poor'.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    ...But since "poor" has been used as a codeword for black or Hispanic, let's stand that on its' head... what if you are poor white trash, shoeless and illiterate in the most remote part of Appalachia... should the poor in Carbuncle, West Virginia be denied arms as well...?
    What if poor is not a code word?

    The issue looks to be more about population and population contration? What is the crime rate? What is the level of government assistance? IMO.

    It has nothing to do with people being black, white, or poor. It is a foolish understanding that taking firearms from the GG somehow hinders the BG, and makes the GG safe.

    There are no race or class related code words. These same people want to take guns away from everyone.
    NRA Member
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  12. #27
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    No one is insulated!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    BINGO! ^^

    Whole complete towns and even counties receive social assistance and public funded aid dollars. Seriously, across much of America especially within the heartland.

    Again things occur and rarely do people choose the timing and almost no one is insulated contrary to what persons might believe.

    We all are a medical emergency, divorce, layoff, or natural disaster away from poverty and public assistance.
    Just ask most anyone, who is or has been 'poor'.

    - Janq
    The key point is that no one is insulated. Just ask some of the folks who lost a few million to Madoff or Sanford, or to other financial mishaps.

    Just ask the folks who thought they had good and secure jobs with upper middle incomes, at GM. My friend was an engineer there.

    Just ask the guy who was hit by a car and badly injured by an uninsured or underinsured motorist. Ask the kids of such a person.

    Just ask folks who had good jobs till their company was sold, and the work transferred to China.

  13. #28
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    How quickly we forget, Mr. Cleaver.

    His statements and logic is the _exact_ same as was used so as to support enactment and continuation of both the 'Slave Codes' and the infamous Dred Scott at SCOTUS decision.
    Where else but in this forum can we have two separate references to Chief Justice Taney in a single month!

    The quote is particularly pertinent since it addresses the true meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment:

    For if they [black slaves] were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own safety. [B]It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased,[B] singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished

    -----------------------------------------------

    Before addressing the topic, I thought I would provide that insight into the Fourteenth Amendment.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    It is a shame Cleaver was elected to the post, but Missouri can vote him out pretty soon, and will if he keeps up this nonsense.
    "The Reverend" Emmanuel Cleaver is my representative. He just got re-elected without campaigning. He's a "toe-the-line" democrat (he'll vote the way Pelosi tells him to vote), so he is completely safe.

    So, Cleaver believes that our constitutional rights belong to some people, but not to poor people.

    I am NOT surprised that he is an anti-gun freak.

    I encourage everyone to write him an e-mail:

    Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, II: Contact Information

    But I doubt you will make any headway.

    I've contacted him numerous times and he is a die-hard anti-gun liberal.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  15. #30
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    From time to time folks post stuff here indicating their distaste for "the poor" who they would deny rights, and hurl names such as lazy, bum, worthless; and then demand to know where personal responsibility is.
    I haven't read any poster that wants to deny lazy bums and worthless irresponsible their rights. Can you provide some examples so we can properly assess your assertion?

    I don't know what is wrong with the upstairs part of folks who think like that.
    There are some people who think we should rebel agaisnt the Constitutional government. As evidenced here, peoplethink in ways that individually we find there might be a problem with 'the upstairs' part.

    We currently have several long time participants here who are struggling, and who wish to maintain their dignity. These examples are are proof that good people come in all economic circumstances.
    Yes, they do. There are good people that are poor and bad people that are wealthy. Point?

    With unemployment at approximately 10% and underemployment probably at least another 10% we can't in anything like good conscience hurl abuse at that large a segment of our population, and blame that many people for their circumstance.
    As Thomas Sowell has brilliantly explained, very few people remain 'poor.' We have the most vibrant economy in the world. People go up and down the economic tiers all the time. I'm sure you have heard of people born poor who achieve great success. How did that happen?

    "Poor" too often is used as a code word for folks who are different and whom some wish to discriminate against.
    Really? What oher secret code words do you imagine some people use? Liberal for socialist, for example?

    We all have a collective responsibility to make our economy work in a way that allows anyone willing and able to work to find gainful employment that will keep them above the poverty line and enable a life of dignity.
    Many people don't see dignitiy the same way you do. Some want to milk the system, welfare, food stamps, free health care, subsidized housing and they think scamming the system is a great achievement. Is that the dignity to which you are referring?

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