Shelby County and Germantown Ban Legal Carry in Parks.

[PNUT]

Shelby County votes to keep gun ban in parks
G'town also opts out of state law; Bartlett delays discussion

By Daniel Connolly (Contact) and Lela Garlington (Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal
Tuesday, July 14, 2009

A proposal to keep an existing ban on guns in county-owned parks passed, 10-3, at the Shelby County Commission on Monday despite objections from citizens who said it would attract criminals to the gun-free zones.

In the suburbs, Germantown voted unanimously for a ban and Bartlett delayed a discussion set for tonight after the county attorney questioned the new state law on guns in parks.

The Germantown Board of Mayor and Alderman voted 5-0 to ban guns from their 27 parks, natural areas and greenways. Germantown is the first suburban city to opt out of the state law. The aldermen also voted 3-2 to ban guns in city-owned buildings.

Bartlett Mayor Keith McDonald said he would delay a Board of Mayor and Aldermen resolution after County Atty. Brian Kuhn said he believed new state laws permitting handgun permit holders to bring guns into parks, restaurants and other establishments violated the state Constitution because they wouldn't apply to everyone.

McDonald said there are too many unanswered legal questions to proceed.

County Mayor A C Wharton sought the legal opinion because the new laws contain the "opt out" provisions that would limit their applicability statewide. For instance, the county can declare that its parks can keep existing bans.

"Something just doesn't look right with this law," Wharton said at the commission meeting Monday.

The panel passed an amendment introduced by Commissioner Mike Ritz that says the county acknowledges the county attorney's opinion and doesn't waive its own right to challenge the legislation.

Meanwhile, representatives from groups including the Tennessee Firearms Association said gun rights shouldn't be limited. An attorney for the group, Hal Rounds, said he would sue the county if a person was unable to defend himself or herself in a park because of the county gun ban.

He cited the hypothetical example of a mother unable to stop a dog that was mauling her toddler because of the gun ban: "I'm looking forward to some grisly thing like that happening so we can (file the suit and protect others)."

That formulation seemed to offend some commissioners, including Mike Carpenter, who said he hoped that Rounds had misspoken.

He said Rounds seemed to be "looking forward to someone in our parks being savaged so he can sue us. I think it's despicable."

The policy would apply to county-owned properties such as Shelby Farms.

Voting yes to keep the current ban were commissioners Henri E. Brooks, Carpenter, Sidney Chism, Joe Ford, J.W. Gibson II, James Harvey, Matt Kuhn, Deidre Malone, Steve Mulroy and Ritz.

Voting no were commissioners Joyce Avery, Wyatt Bunker and George Flinn.

Voices on both sides of the debate were heard at the Germantown meeting as well.

"The intent of our state legislators and their unprecedented paranoia puzzles me," Adrienne Pakis-Gillon said. "We are dismayed that outside influences have hijacked Germantown's efforts to establish a peaceful, family oriented community."

After the vote, Dr. Alan Eisenberg said: "In Florida, you are more likely to get attacked by an alligator than a handgun permit holder. It just doesn't occur."

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[dukalmighty]

One place I would want to carry is in a park where I'm jogging,walking reading,meandering and theres a possibility some thug sees me as an opportunity,I'd like to see how much the crime rate goes up in the parks after this little doodad

[Catalina]

TN needs state preemption of local laws. This is a trap.

[tangoseal]

Local laws should never be able to override state laws. And Federal Laws should never be able to override state laws. OH MY GOD>>>> Just like the Fathers wanted .... states running themselves by their respective citizens.

[tinkerinWstuff]

some clowns just don't get it. Why people are so afraid of legal gun posession is beyond me.

[PNUT]

Dukalmighty,
You make a good point. I had a problem in the park the other day with 4 nice young gentlemen. Luckily ,I wasn't alone ( or unarmed). I got my dog out of the truck and they decided to leave . 4 on 1 ? No thanks, too old for that. I offered two on 4 but they didn't like the deal. I go to that park almost every evening with Rufus, I wasn't leaving . That's how places go downhill, because people let them.

[Eagleks]

TN needs state preemption of local laws. This is a trap.

I agree, numerous cities and counties started enacting all types of laws when CC was approved here.... the State Legislature went back and passed a follow up bill.... over-riding any local laws to not allow the cities and counties to make it illegal to carry in parks, parking lots, and about everything else they could come up with. It would end up a hodge podge of laws that no one could follow, which was the intent of the various cities, etc.

The State Legislature needs to correct and fix this problem.

[PNUT]

The State put in a provision whereby towns could opt out, they had to give them that to get it passed. Hopefully they'll be able to go back and change it later. It's pretty stupid, you can be armed in the bank but not the park...go figure.

[kentuckycarry]

Last year a local city park here in Ky had a no firearms sign up. After a couple weeks it came down. It wasn't legal to post it. Gotta love Ky.

[TN_Mike]

In a park in Bartlett last summer two people who were riding their bicycles were attacked by a group of 4 or 5 young criminals, who were armed with handguns and robbed and threatened. But, hey, that will never happen again right?

And I know Hal Rounds. He is a very decent and honorable man and I doubt very seriously that he said what the paper quoted him as saying. I think he more likely said he looks forward to suing the County on behalf of someone who has been attacked in a County owned Park.

I look forward to the lawsuit as well. Hal is a tough cookie.

[farronwolf]

Well this is just one more reason to put off a visit to family that is left in the Memphis area.

This really is silly to let the local governments override the state laws. Will TN then have to publish a long book of places that are banned state wide? Would probably be like carrying a major phone book around by the time all the locales pass their places exempt from the new state law.

Just stupid.

[tankdriver]

The only way the State law was going to pass was if the allopwed the locals to opt out. Give it a couple years, and they will change it where State law rules....

[shooterX]

My sister lives in Germantown and is very anti-gun. I have tried to bring her into the light, but she is very pig headed and rarely changes her mind on anything, its like talking to a brick wall.

[cphilip]

"I'm looking forward to some grisly thing like that happening so we can (file the suit and protect others)."

That formulation seemed to offend some commissioners, including Mike Carpenter, who said he hoped that Rounds had misspoken.

He said Rounds seemed to be "looking forward to someone in our parks being savaged so he can sue us. I think it's despicable."

LOL... I am pretty sure he didn't intend for it to come out the way it did. Careful how you phrase things!

[cvhoss]

I agree, numerous cities and counties started enacting all types of laws when CC was approved here.... the State Legislature went back and passed a follow up bill.... over-riding any local laws to not allow the cities and counties to make it illegal to carry in parks, parking lots, and about everything else they could come up with. It would end up a hodge podge of laws that no one could follow, which was the intent of the various cities, etc.

The State Legislature needs to correct and fix this problem.

And don't you find it amazing that after 2 years since the passage of HB2528, not a single CCH holder has gone on a rampage killing innocents in a park, a parking lot, a church, etc. According to the LKM (Leage of Kansas Municipalities), allowing legally armed citizens to carry in these places was going to cause the blood to run in the streets.

Hopefully, Tennessee can see their way to fixing their law and allow ALL licensed citizens the right to defend themselves anywhere.

Hoss