Vote on National Right to Carry Coming Soon - Page 2

Vote on National Right to Carry Coming Soon

This is a discussion on Vote on National Right to Carry Coming Soon within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My standpoint on this topic, if other states have to recongize my driver's license; the condition of my vehicle whether my state has inspections or ...

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Thread: Vote on National Right to Carry Coming Soon

  1. #16
    Member Array dlclarkii's Avatar
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    My standpoint on this topic, if other states have to recongize my driver's license; the condition of my vehicle whether my state has inspections or not; then they should also recongize my LTCF. If I can carry in 33 states then why can't I carry in the other 17 states?

    I can't wait to walk across the border and open carry in MD and NJ with a grin


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzcrasher View Post
    Little off topic, kinda. A marriage (traditional man/woman) from onw state is not valid in another?? When did that happen? I got married in CO, then moved to Idaho, and now Texas and Idaho (yes both). Am I not married now???
    You should read the Constitution. In there you will find a clause called "full faith and credit." Under that clause, all states will give full faith and credit to reciprocal states' legal acts.

    The catch is "reciprocal." If one state doesn't reciprocate, then the other states don't have to honor their legal acts. Like marriage, drivers' licences, legal judgments, community property, certificates of title, etc. The other states can CHOOSE to honor the non-reciprocating state but there is no requirement that they do so. Further, no state can "force" other states to honor the acts of that state.

    So, to answer your question, you are married so long as your present state continues to honor the marriage license of the state you were married in. Should that change, then you will no longer be "married" in that state but will remain so in the state that issued the license.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Artical IV
    Section 1.

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

    Rob
    The artical says SHALL not MAY and there is nothing "reciprocal" stated or implied, the states have no choice but to honor the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State

    The federal governments role: "Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved (the real ID act), and the Effect thereof. The big catch is the "Effect thereof" which already has opened that door but the constitution still says SHALL. This is the way the gay rights groups hope to force every state to recognize same sex marriages from states live Mass.
    Last edited by F350; July 18th, 2009 at 06:54 PM.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I don't trust the Fed Gov't. I'm not sure I want them in this issue. If a particular state won't honor my permit, I won't go there and spend my money, etc. It would be nice to carry anywhere, but there may be unintended consequences. If the Fed makes the states honor CCW permits, wouldn't that be like the state forcing private property owners to allow CCW permits? Again, not that I wouldn't like to carry where I want, but there could be a states rights issue, kinda like a private property rights issue. I dunno what to think
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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  5. #20
    Member Array yzcrasher's Avatar
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    To push the topic further, your drivers lic is also honored in all states "IF" you're visiting. So, marriage, and drivers lic already are; why not CC permit.
    ((Place funny, whitty comment here))

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    The way I read the bill, it provides for:

    1. 48 states (possibly DC, Guam, USVI, Puerto Rico...excluding WI & IL) must honor my permit.
    2. The state specific rules on my permit are my home state's rules, but I must follow the host state's exclusions on where I can not carry.

    So, I live in VA, and I cannot carry concealed in alcohol-serving restaurants. But I have out of state permits. If one of these states allows concealed carry in alcohol-serving restaurants, then I can.

    If someone from Texas comes to VA, can they carry concealed in this restaurant. VA doesn't bar possession there, just concealed carry, so by the code Tex is not in a place where he cannot 'carry' the firearm, and Texas' law says CC in a restaurant os OK.

    LEOS are going to be tasked with having references to 48 state's permit laws in order to know if a carrier is legal.

    While I like the law, I can see a lot of problems with it being poorly worded and thought out.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    The way I read the bill, it provides for:

    1. 48 states (possibly DC, Guam, USVI, Puerto Rico...excluding WI & IL) must honor my permit.
    2. The state specific rules on my permit are my home state's rules, but I must follow the host state's exclusions on where I can not carry.

    So, I live in VA, and I cannot carry concealed in alcohol-serving restaurants. But I have out of state permits. If one of these states allows concealed carry in alcohol-serving restaurants, then I can.

    If someone from Texas comes to VA, can they carry concealed in this restaurant. VA doesn't bar possession there, just concealed carry, so by the code Tex is not in a place where he cannot 'carry' the firearm, and Texas' law says CC in a restaurant os OK.

    LEOS are going to be tasked with having references to 48 state's permit laws in order to know if a carrier is legal.

    While I like the law, I can see a lot of problems with it being poorly worded and thought out.
    That wasn't how I read it. It says that the law of the state you are in controls locations where carry is allowed, eg. restaurants. So CCW holders from Texas could not carry in a VA restaurant. The part about restrictions is 'restrictions on the license'...given that some states give licenses which have conditions, it makes sense that this is what the law is referring to, eg. NYS 'business and range' licenses, or 'revolver only'.
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  8. #23
    Member Array yzcrasher's Avatar
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    Here's one for ya. In Texas there are 2 types of CC permits. 1 for revolvers, and 1 for semi and revolvers. How would other states permits work here? I don't worry as I carry a revolver, but many don't.
    ((Place funny, whitty comment here))

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    The way I read the bill, it provides for:

    1. 48 states (possibly DC, Guam, USVI, Puerto Rico...excluding WI & IL) must honor my permit.
    2. The state specific rules on my permit are my home state's rules, but I must follow the host state's exclusions on where I can not carry.

    So, I live in VA, and I cannot carry concealed in alcohol-serving restaurants. But I have out of state permits. If one of these states allows concealed carry in alcohol-serving restaurants, then I can.

    If someone from Texas comes to VA, can they carry concealed in this restaurant. VA doesn't bar possession there, just concealed carry, so by the code Tex is not in a place where he cannot 'carry' the firearm, and Texas' law says CC in a restaurant os OK.

    LEOS are going to be tasked with having references to 48 state's permit laws in order to know if a carrier is legal.

    While I like the law, I can see a lot of problems with it being poorly worded and thought out.
    Nope. Still have to honor each states carry laws. This is why I don't like this bill. It is gonna be "the great equalizer".

    Quote Originally Posted by yzcrasher View Post
    Here's one for ya. In Texas there are 2 types of CC permits. 1 for revolvers, and 1 for semi and revolvers. How would other states permits work here? I don't worry as I carry a revolver, but many don't.
    There is no way this bill can work as it is. As I said, this will take a drastic revamping of states laws in order to make this a uniform reciprocity. This is where I don't like it. Some states have very good carry laws, others have bad carry laws and others have very vague and sketchy laws in general. Lots of people gonna be in trouble if this bill doesn't cover all of this grey area.

    To me this means the Fed will get involved and an "Armed Citizens" Czar will be appointed and we will then have our carry laws under the control of the Fed.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  10. #25
    Member Array pangloss9's Avatar
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    I haven't been following this thread, but this is something we really need to support. GAO and NRA-ILA are both very strongly supporting this amendment. (NRA telephoned a little earlier tonight.) This legislation would not impact States' rights to grant carry permits. It would only force reciprocity.

    If you haven't contacted your senators yet, here's the link to the Senate directory: http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm

    I just wrote both of my senators via their web page. Writing both of them took a total of ten minutes.

    (I just posted this on the other thread about this topic and then saw this one. Looks like I should have posted here first.)

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Constitution of the U.S., Article IV

    Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.
    Is the acknowledgment of a person as a licensed CHL considered a legitimate and lawful "act" by one's own state?

    Is it this "full faith and credit" requirement that ensures each state recognizes the automobile driving licenses from other states? If so, would this override 10A's apparent disallowing of such a thing, since Article IV specifically empowers the Federal government to ensure the states recognize the legitimate acts of each other?

    If so, then how is a CHL different from an automobile driving license?

    Don't know. Am just asking.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; July 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spelling, clarity
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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    The law itself does not bother me so much as the unintended consequences of the law. If this is passed, I would not be suprised to see the senators and representatives of more restrictive states push for federal ccw standards. I would not expect these standards to be based on the more freedom loving states.

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