Shoot it down: Senate must kill amendment that would dangerously gut gun laws

This is a discussion on Shoot it down: Senate must kill amendment that would dangerously gut gun laws within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; NY Daily News Editorial Tuesday, July 21st 2009, 4:00 AM The pistols-for-everyone-everywhere crowd in Washington has engineered diabolical legislation that would blow gaping holes in ...

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Thread: Shoot it down: Senate must kill amendment that would dangerously gut gun laws

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    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Shoot it down: Senate must kill amendment that would dangerously gut gun laws

    NY Daily News Editorial

    Tuesday, July 21st 2009, 4:00 AM

    The pistols-for-everyone-everywhere crowd in Washington has engineered diabolical legislation that would blow gaping holes in New York's gun control laws. The measure must be stopped.

    Republican Sen. John Thune wants Americans across the country to be able to carry concealed weapons, including Americans who live in, work in or visit this city and state. That's apparently the way of life, and death, in his beloved South Dakota.

    But what flies in Sioux Falls, population 150,000, or capital city Pierre, population 14,000, does not make it in the world's safest big city, population 8.4 million, where the police have saved thousands from gun deaths by vigorously enforcing weapons laws.

    Thoroughly distorting the legislative process, Thune has attached a pro-gun amendment to a defense authorization bill. It would let anyone granted a concealed carry permit by any state carry a concealed handgun in any other state that issues such permits.

    Which New York does. But not all concealed carry permits are created equal. New York has some of the strictest rules in the country, and it doesn't have reciprocal agreements with other states that allow visitors to bring guns across the state line.

    The Thune amendment would gut those safeguards. Anyone meeting the laxest standards of federal law - including people with misdemeanor convictions, long arrest records or alcohol abuse problems - would be able to walk the city streets packing heat. The NYPD could do nothing.

    Not only that, New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home.

    The NYPD and the 400-member, bipartisan group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, among others, are opposed to the Thune amendment. Mayor Bloomberg is working to stop it. But even with a 60-vote majority, Senate Democrats are not sure that they have enough votes to defeat the measure, given the ranks of Dems from traditionally Republican, gun-loving states.

    New York's best hope is for Sen. Chuck Schumer and others to pressure Thune to withdraw the amendment. Failing that, Schumer says he will filibuster.

    Whatever it takes. The Thune amendment must be shot down, [by any means necessary].

    [LINK]

    Last edited by mrreynolds; July 21st, 2009 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Link Fixed

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    Link in OP did not work for me. If so for others, try this:

    Shoot it down: Senate must kill amendment that would dangerously gut gun laws
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Let's see how this breaks down:
    • The pistols-for-everyone-everywhere crowd -- Lie. It's the pistols-for-upstanding-citizens crowd.

    • Republican Sen. John Thune wants Americans across the country to be able to carry concealed weapons -- Lie. He wants upstanding citizens to stop being treated like criminals.

    • What flies in Sioux Falls, population 150,000, or capital city Pierre, population 14,000, does not make it in the world's safest big city, population 8.4 million -- Ignoring of facts. A person is 2.5x more likely to be the victim of violent crime in NYC than Sioux Falls.

    • Thoroughly distorting the legislative process, Thune has attached a pro-gun amendment to a defense authorization bill -- Seems perfectly fitting, for once, to put something like this on a Defense bill.

    • It would let anyone granted a concealed carry permit by any state carry a concealed handgun in any other state that issues such permits -- It would help stop the labeling of armed upstanding citizens as criminals.

    • Which New York does -- Which NYC does the exact opposite of, yes.

    • New York has some of the strictest rules in the country -- And that hasn't helped it from becoming one of the most dangerous places in the country. It has effectively cleared the field of citizens able to defend against crime.

    • New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home. -- Only criminals would do that. Or, are NYC "leaders" saying that NYC has a far, far greater percentage of supposedly upstanding citizens that are criminals?

    • Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- Allowing upstanding citizens to carry legal firearms has nothing to do with illegal firearms; less, with Mayors blathering about it.

    • New York's best hope is for Sen. Chuck Schumer ... -- Now, there's a contradiction in terms and a disturbing thought.

    • The Thune amendment must be shot down, by any means necessary -- By any means necessary, hm? Doesn't sound like an upstanding person's method, there.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    jbs
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    As far as i'm concerned, Lautenberg is against this ammendment...therefore I am for it. If the state of N.J. doesn't want it there must be something really good in there that supports our rights.

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    CCW9MM,

    Don't go trying to use reason to debunk those arguments that the New Yorkers are using. They sound so go to people who can't reason well.

    I will take exception with one of your comments though.

    New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home. -- Only criminals would do that. Or, are NYC "leaders" saying that NYC has a far, far greater percentage of supposedly upstanding citizens that are criminals?
    If I were one of those New Yorkers that was denied a permit because I wasn't deemed worthy to get a carry permit, I dang well would be looking for another state to issue me a non resident permit so I could carry in NY, heaven forbid I be forced to live there.

    The criminals aren't going to worry about a permit to begin with, they don't have them now do they.

    I honestly don't think this amendment stands a snowballs chance in hell but it will be fun to watch the debate on it. One thing to consider is that if the Feds get involved with CHL reciprocity, then it is possible that the Feds will get involved with the CHL rules for attaining a permit as well. I would rather not see that happen. I kind of like the way Texas handles there permit process, well except for the time it takes.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbs View Post
    As far as i'm concerned, Lautenberg is against this ammendment...therefore I am for it. If the state of N.J. doesn't want it there must be something really good in there that supports our rights.
    What he said, Criminals don't obey laws. They already carry concealed.

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    From the NRA

    U.S. Senate To Vote On National Right-To-Carry
    Reciprocity Amendment Early This Week


    Contact Your U.S. Senators TODAY And Urge Them To Support Your Right To Self-Defense by voting YES on the Thune-Vitter Amendment!



    July 21, 2009

    The U.S. Senate is now considering the National Defense Authorization Act (S. 1390). As a part of the consideration of that legislation, Senators John Thune (R-SD) and David Vitter (R-LA) will offer an amendment this week to provide for interstate recognition of Right-to-Carry permits. There is a very high likelihood of a Senate floor vote on this important and timely pro-gun reform between now and Wednesday.

    Now is the time for Congress to recognize that the right to self-defense does not end at state lines. Under the Thune-Vitter amendment, an individual who has met the requirements for a carry permit, or who is otherwise allowed by his home state's state law to carry a firearm, would be authorized to carry a firearm for protection in any other state that issues such permits, subject to the laws of the state in which the firearm is carried.

    Contrary to "states' rights" claims from opponents who usually favor sweeping federal gun control, the amendment is a legitimate exercise of Congress's constitutional power to protect the fundamental rights of citizens (including the right to keep and bear arms and the right of personal mobility). States would still have the authority to regulate the time, place and manner in which handguns are carried.

    Expanding Right-to-Carry will enhance public safety, and certainly poses no threat to the public. Criminals are deterred from attempting crimes when they know or suspect that their prospective victims are armed. A study for the Department of Justice found that 40 percent of felons had not committed crimes because they feared the prospective victims were armed. The Thune-Vitter amendment recognizes that competent, responsible, law-abiding Americans still deserve our trust and confidence when they cross state lines. Passing interstate Right-to-Carry legislation will help further reduce crime by deterring criminals, and -- most important of all -- will protect the right of honest Americans to protect themselves if deterrence fails.

    The Thune-Vitter Amendment represents a giant step forward in the protection of the basic right to self-defense. Its passage will recognize that the rights of law-abiding Right-to-Carry permit holders should be respected, even when they travel outside their home state.

    Gun control groups, including New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" are running ads trying to scare your lawmakers and the American people into opposing this crucial Right-to-Carry reform. It is critical that your U.S. Senators hear from you immediately.

    Please be sure to contact both of your U.S. Senators today, and urge them to cosponsor and support the Thune-Vitter interstate right to carry recipocity amendment. E-mail and call them immediately!

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    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Let's see how this breaks down:
    • The pistols-for-everyone-everywhere crowd -- Lie. It's the pistols-for-upstanding-citizens crowd.

    • Republican Sen. John Thune wants Americans across the country to be able to carry concealed weapons -- Lie. He wants upstanding citizens to stop being treated like criminals.

    • What flies in Sioux Falls, population 150,000, or capital city Pierre, population 14,000, does not make it in the world's safest big city, population 8.4 million -- Ignoring of facts. A person is 2.5x more likely to be the victim of violent crime in NYC than Sioux Falls.

    • Thoroughly distorting the legislative process, Thune has attached a pro-gun amendment to a defense authorization bill -- Seems perfectly fitting, for once, to put something like this on a Defense bill.

    • It would let anyone granted a concealed carry permit by any state carry a concealed handgun in any other state that issues such permits -- It would help stop the labeling of armed upstanding citizens as criminals.

    • Which New York does -- Which NYC does the exact opposite of, yes.

    • New York has some of the strictest rules in the country -- And that hasn't helped it from becoming one of the most dangerous places in the country. It has effectively cleared the field of citizens able to defend against crime.

    • New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home. -- Only criminals would do that. Or, are NYC "leaders" saying that NYC has a far, far greater percentage of supposedly upstanding citizens that are criminals?

    • Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- Allowing upstanding citizens to carry legal firearms has nothing to do with illegal firearms; less, with Mayors blathering about it.

    • New York's best hope is for Sen. Chuck Schumer ... -- Now, there's a contradiction in terms and a disturbing thought.

    • The Thune amendment must be shot down, by any means necessary -- By any means necessary, hm? Doesn't sound like an upstanding person's method, there.
    +1...Well said.. I have already emailed my Senators and asked they vote YES to the Thune-Vitter Amendment.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    Member Array JohnWFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Let's see how this breaks down:
    • The pistols-for-everyone-everywhere crowd -- Lie. It's the pistols-for-upstanding-citizens crowd.

    • Republican Sen. John Thune wants Americans across the country to be able to carry concealed weapons -- Lie. He wants upstanding citizens to stop being treated like criminals.

    • What flies in Sioux Falls, population 150,000, or capital city Pierre, population 14,000, does not make it in the world's safest big city, population 8.4 million -- Ignoring of facts. A person is 2.5x more likely to be the victim of violent crime in NYC than Sioux Falls.

    • Thoroughly distorting the legislative process, Thune has attached a pro-gun amendment to a defense authorization bill -- Seems perfectly fitting, for once, to put something like this on a Defense bill.

    • It would let anyone granted a concealed carry permit by any state carry a concealed handgun in any other state that issues such permits -- It would help stop the labeling of armed upstanding citizens as criminals.

    • Which New York does -- Which NYC does the exact opposite of, yes.

    • New York has some of the strictest rules in the country -- And that hasn't helped it from becoming one of the most dangerous places in the country. It has effectively cleared the field of citizens able to defend against crime.

    • New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home. -- Only criminals would do that. Or, are NYC "leaders" saying that NYC has a far, far greater percentage of supposedly upstanding citizens that are criminals?

    • Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- Allowing upstanding citizens to carry legal firearms has nothing to do with illegal firearms; less, with Mayors blathering about it.

    • New York's best hope is for Sen. Chuck Schumer ... -- Now, there's a contradiction in terms and a disturbing thought.

    • The Thune amendment must be shot down, by any means necessary -- By any means necessary, hm? Doesn't sound like an upstanding person's method, there.
    Great follow up commentary.... right on the mark!

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Already emailed both my senators.
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    "Not only that, New Yorkers denied a local permit could go to any of the 21 states that give concealed carry permits to nonresidents. They'd then be free to bring mayhem back home."



    The same sad,tired argument that the shall-issue states heard before they passed their laws.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Does this not equal the nationwide reciprocity those in other threads have been so against?

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...nal-ccw-7.html

    "Senate Democrats are not sure that they have enough votes to defeat the measure, given the ranks of Dems from traditionally Republican, gun-loving states."

    What I've been saing all along.
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Does this not equal the nationwide reciprocity those in other threads have been so against?

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...nal-ccw-7.html

    "Senate Democrats are not sure that they have enough votes to defeat the measure, given the ranks of Dems from traditionally Republican, gun-loving states."

    What I've been saing all along.
    Yes. But the author isn't arguing for Federalism, just that people shouldn't have guns except the elite, like Schumer.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    I am against this as a states right issue, I am for this as a concealed carry reciprocity issue. Either way contact your congrescritter and tell them how you feel:

    Senate:
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    Member Web Site Listing (by State) - United States House of Representatives, 111th Congress, 1st Session

    With all of the other issues Health Care, Cap and Tax, and all of the other issues happening in the House and Senate you do have a voice. E-Mail and Call your Senators and representatives.
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    As for me I e-mailed the Easter Bunny, at least he will consider my opinion. Chuckles Schumer will not.............
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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