2A invalid defense against modern army.

This is a discussion on 2A invalid defense against modern army. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think it is nieve to think you have some modern example of a determined modern army being held in check by armed civilians. It ...

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Thread: 2A invalid defense against modern army.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    2A invalid defense against modern army.

    I think it is nieve to think you have some modern example of a determined modern army being held in check by armed civilians. It is illogical to think of 2A, and small arms, to be a desiding factor in keeping U.S. safe from a determined modern army.

    I did not want to take a different post off track, so I started this one and want to quote a few people who posted in a different thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    "An armed populace cannot defeat a modern army". I'm sure there are many Russian veterans of Afghanistan that would disagree with that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeephipwr View Post
    and the soviets who were in Afganistan and the US while in Vietnam
    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    ...Huh, it seems that we handled the British just fine, just as the Afghanis handled the Russians. How quickly history is forgotten......
    I see a flaw in these comments. First wars from 1700s to WW2 just don't count as modern. Next, in the often quoted examples, we are talking about modernish civilish armies vs a third world nations. As for USSR vs Afganistan, or USA vs Vietnam, they were proxy wars.

    Population and resources would work against a sistuation, like say United States under attack on U.S. soil. There would be a disruption of the food supply. Only so many people can live off the land. Modern farming and the ability to transport those supplies to grocery stores are critical. An incredable number of U.S. citizens are dependant on medication to simply live. Supplies of drinkable,water would run out in 3 to 7 days for the vast majority of the population. Electricity and modern electronics (including your car) would be things of the past.

    Those are just a few targets to consider that will kill off millions of U.S. citizens. Once those bodies are lying around, a vast number of issue develop from diseases to lesser know problems like wild dog packs.

    Then consider every example in modern times of a modern army invading a country. To varying degrees, from the USSR to USA, from Korea to Afganistan, the "modern" army played nice.

    Once an army gets on U.S. soil, I'm very doubtful you are going to have a Red Dawn situation. The invading army is going to wipe out resistance in a way all but unimaginable. Think kurds being gassed is a close example.

    I think it is nieve to think you have some modern example of a determined modern army being held in check by armed civilians. It is illogical to think of 2A, and small arms, to be a desiding factor in keeping U.S. safe from a determined modern army.
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  3. #2
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    It's all been said before Thanis...

    right before the first shot was fired at the most powerful standing Army and Navy in the world at some small field in Massachussetts a few hundred years ago.

    After a bunch of civilians kicked their tails, it wasnt even brought up until those that fought died of old age and their childrens children forgot about it.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It's all been said before Thanis...

    right before the first shot was fired at the most powerful standing Army and Navy in the world at some small field in Massachussetts a few hundred years ago.

    After a bunch of civilians kicked their tails, it wasnt even brought up until those that fought died of old age and their childrens children forgot about it.
    The British of 1700s are not the same as a modern army. The logistics of the 1700s and 1800s are vey different. In addition, from untold number of cities and battles lost to just the events of Valley Forge. Our country's birth was far from certain.

    The Revolutionary War is a poor example.
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    The Revolutionary War is a poor example
    The fact that we are sitting here discussing it proves otherwise. You do know that we won right?
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    From a military standpoint, Washington was not really much of a commander at all... he lost all the time. But he did win the last one, and that was the one that ended up counting...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    right before the first shot was fired at the most powerful standing Army and Navy in the world at some small field in Massachussetts a few hundred years ago.

    After a bunch of civilians kicked their tails, it wasnt even brought up until those that fought died of old age and their childrens children forgot about it.
    I don;t remember the British having nuclear warheads on long range missiles. When you and your neighbors can devise a defense against that type of attack then I suggest you leave the task in the hands of those qualified to do so. While a standing army was disasteful to the many of Founders, there is no other choice to defend the nation. Hamilton was prescient on a number of issues. He made the anti-Federalists then (and the libertarians today) seem utterly foolish.

    The Soviet Union could have destroyed Afghanistan if they so chose just as America could have destroyed Vietnam. Peasants are no defense against high technology weapon systems.

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    In my six decades of experience, I have learned one thing for sure..."Never, say never!".
    There are over 300 million firearms in this country...
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    Member Array CBXMan's Avatar
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    Just who is this "Modern Army" that we shoiuld be scared of ????

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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I don;t remember the British having nuclear warheads on long range missiles. When you and your neighbors can devise a defense against that type of attack then I suggest you leave the task in the hands of those qualified to do so. While a standing army was disasteful to the many of Founders, there is no other choice to defend the nation. Hamilton was prescient on a number of issues. He made the anti-Federalists then (and the libertarians today) seem utterly foolish.

    The Soviet Union could have destroyed Afghanistan if they so chose just as America could have destroyed Vietnam. Peasants are no defense against high technology weapon systems.
    Agreed.

    Sure we could be nuked into oblivion and we could do the same to anyone. Whats the point though?

    The land would literally be poisoned for quite some time.

    As of right now, there is no other way. No army or navy has the amphibious capability's to maintain a long battle on our shores. Even if our military was no more, do you really think that most people would give up? Although I am certain that many cannon fodder types would give up at the first sign of trouble, there would still be a lot of people that would resist any efforts by an invading army.

    There have been many high level studies done over the years about this very scenario. All of them have the same conclusion. Unless every single country in the world allied against us and were willing to pay the rather large cost of a protracted war, it would be for the most part be a losing battle by anyone that attempted it.
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    One Nuke launched from a sub off the coast of the U.S. that explodes X # of miles up in the atmosphere and the resulting EMP knocks nearly everything out
    all cell phone communication
    TV
    The Internet
    The Power Grid
    Radio
    The electronics in automobiles
    Grampas pacemaker

    the list goes on and on and on.

    Firearms will still be fully operational though but, structured, civilized society and the ability to organize through any modern means of communication will evaporate almost immediately.

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    At least we wouldnt have to listen to those dimwits in D.C.
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    Member Array AceHi's Avatar
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    Think about what has been happening over the last decade or so in Afganistan, first with the Russians and now with us.
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    OK Everyone go to your favorite video store and find "The Russians are coming, The Russians are coming."

    Get your popcorn and be prepared to laugh your beer up out your nose.

    There's a message in that film; for real.

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Agreed.

    Sure we could be nuked into oblivion and we could do the same to anyone. Whats the point though?

    The land would literally be poisoned for quite some time.

    As of right now, there is no other way. No army or navy has the amphibious capability's to maintain a long battle on our shores. Even if our military was no more, do you really think that most people would give up? Although I am certain that many cannon fodder types would give up at the first sign of trouble, there would still be a lot of people that would resist any efforts by an invading army.

    There have been many high level studies done over the years about this very scenario. All of them have the same conclusion. Unless every single country in the world allied against us and were willing to pay the rather large cost of a protracted war, it would be for the most part be a losing battle by anyone that attempted it.
    Indeed. The oceans still protect us against land and sea attacks. Unfortunately, they do not rotect us against missile attacks, which is why the missile defense programs are so important. It really is the only way, militarily, we can be defeated.

    More troublesome is the demographics. Europe is already being overtaken by the enemy, who breed young [terrorists] like rabbits.
    Last edited by Bumper; July 23rd, 2009 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Removed political/editorial comments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    In my six decades of experience, I have learned one thing for sure..."Never, say never!".
    There are over 300 million firearms in this country...
    The only problem is when you break it down there are many of those owned by people who would turn and run when the SHTF. Some too old to take up arms, some disabled etc.. And with the diversity of people you WILL have a number of ''turncoats''.

    I own a couple dozen of those 300 million and I can't think right now of that many people I would hand them off to that would be proficient enough to use them in battle let alone willing.

    I think at this time I am with Thanis on this one.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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