Shortest and best anti vs pro conversation.

This is a discussion on Shortest and best anti vs pro conversation. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was reading Janq's thread. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...go-reader.html It reminded me of a past conversation I had with a co-worker during lunch. I've never informed him I ...

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Thread: Shortest and best anti vs pro conversation.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Shortest and best anti vs pro conversation.

    I was reading Janq's thread.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...go-reader.html

    It reminded me of a past conversation I had with a co-worker during lunch. I've never informed him I carry. He noticed someone else was carrying.

    Friend: Something is wrong with how many people in this state have started to carry, they need to do something about it.

    Me: Do you think the laws will stop criminals from using firearms?

    Friend: It would have to help.

    Me: To get the permit in MI you have to pass a back-ground check every three years, I don't think a criminal is going to do that.

    Friend: Why not?

    Me: Why would they want the police to know what type of firearms they have, allow their finger prints to go on file, and pay the costs to process? Only a person who respects the law is going to do that.

    Friend: Plenty of criminals break the law and never get caught. Besides, those gun nuts would carry even if it was against the law.

    Me: Then your saying the law will not, hold on. (I laugh) Reminds me, I remember once you would not submit to a drug test, and you and I know why, you had something to hide. All the time you state pot should be made legal, the laws don't stop anyone, how it is none of the government's business, and you will smoke pot whenever you want. The guy with the gun, most likely legal. You on the other hand, your the criminal.

    Friend: (smile) You win. Talk about honest but brutal.

    I'm willing to bet 50% of all anti-gun types smoke pot. No judgement on pot, just given the situation, was hard to passs up on the opportunity.
    Last edited by Thanis; July 28th, 2009 at 06:04 PM. Reason: clarify
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  3. #2
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    Your friend suffers from a deficiency in worldly wisdom. Your friend doesn't get it, and perhaps is doomed to a SD defense situation in his future that he will never see coming...better start getting him educated.

    Also, thinking that 50% of anti-gunners smoke pot is pretty naive...do you have facts to back up that thinking?
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    ...Also, thinking that 50% of anti-gunners smoke pot is pretty naive...do you have facts to back up that thinking?
    Around 1/2 the people I know are either some form of pro or anti gun. That was were I came up with 50%.

    You know, you have me there. U.S. population 304,059,724. I did a little searching, and here are the rough numbers:

    10% to 13% (30 to 40 million) use illegal drugs every year
    4% (13 million) used illegal drugs in the last month
    3% (10 million) are presumed to be casual drug users
    1% (3 million) are addicts

    Now these are all drugs. I've never used an illegal drug (I admit when I was under 21, I did drink). Maybe I make unusual acquaintances, but I would have thought the number would be higher. I think the numbers are flawed, and are more related to who is caught, but I must also wonder if my impression of the number of pot users is also flawed.

    Maybe it is just the people I know who use drugs, most are not social conservatives, so I assume their gun beliefs.
    Last edited by Thanis; July 28th, 2009 at 08:01 PM.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I'm willing to bet 50% of all anti-gun types smoke pot. No judgement on pot, just given the situation, was hard to passs up on the opportunity.
    Very much agreed.

    In fact I've long said that those persons who are for legalization of marijuana and who are against it's being an unlawful product and/or controlled substance in select states and cities, should be in fact be pro-gun too.
    Why? Because the entirety of the platform they stand on as related to marijuana is 99% a direct parallel to that of gun rights.
    The only difference...The right to [keep and] bear arms shall not be infringed, so say the United States Constitution Bill of Rights.
    There is no such statement nor clause as related to marijuana, drugs in general nor naturally occurring weeds and derivatives (hashish) or flowers (opium comes from poppy plants).

    Same goes for the retrograde as well as the post-modern hippy naturalists who speak and sing songs of freedom, peace, love, and being one amongst and of nature & naturality.

    To a large degree from my own personal experience when this item is pointed out along with the parallels as to said minded persons such as this, they get vapor lock and either stall or shutdown altogether unable to see through the smudges upon their rose colored glasses.

    - Janq does not smoke anything, though I do take a daily multi-vitamin and aspirin :p
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    To presume that "most" pot smokers are anti-gun "hippies", or "most" anti-gun people smoke dope, is as foolish and erroneoneous an assumption as the popular stereotype that gun owners are "mostly" gap toothed goat loving morons from Deliverance.

    There are LOTS of people who smoke dope, and collect guns who live more circumspect lives than most. They work, they pay taxes, they raise children responsibly, they shoot, and sometimes they smoke dope.

    There are ho-mo-SEXUALS that own guns too! And black people!Shocking, I know.

    DO you respect anybody's freedom other than people exactly like you?

    This attitude is no more productive than the artificial divisions between handgunners, hunters, and afficionados of "black" guns.

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    [QUOTE=TravisABQ;

    There are ho-mo-SEXUALS that own guns too!

    Say it's not true PLEASE
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I neither know nor care what the correlation is between anti-gun folks and pot-smoking hippies. On the other hand, I find a strong kernel of truth in what I read as Thanis's point: the anti-gun liberal in general seems to be the sort of person who is all for keeping the government out of drugs and various forms of sexual expression (nothing said about any of this in the Constitution) and very much in favor of having the government tell other people they can't pray or have guns (two things that most definitely are protected by the Constitution).

    So, I would say that at least half of anti-gunners are toking regularly on the hypocrisy pipe...

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    People who don't own gun don't tend to be very pro-2a. People who own guns are more likely pro-2a. Nothing is absolute, just my general impression. Judge me as you will, but in general, I don't think most CC permit holders have many drugs around. Just a matter of risk. I have also noticed few pot users I know own firearms. Again, I think it is a matter or risk, and they don't want to hide their bong next to their firearm.

    Now with that said, I was just with people who are both pot users and avid permit holders. They were not smoking while I was there (was more of a family thing). However, I did not spend the night, and only went in the house to use the rest room. While I'm still friendly, I don't do as much, especially at their home, with friends that are pot users, since I started to carry. The minute it is legal, have to admit, I will at least try it. I'm not pre judging anyone. Just passing on my own experience.

    To say around 1/2 of the people who smoke pot are anti-gun, is not a negative statement concerning pot smokers, or anti-gun. I just feel, in my experience, both are a 50/50 issue. I'm saying, IMO, at the very least, they are about the same as the rest of the population, and those that are anti can often be shocked to re-think the issue once it is applied to their choices.

    BTW, not suggesting 2A (only recognised property right in the COTUS) has the same legal strength as pot smoking. Just that sometimes there may be a shared belief systems, often missed, by both groups.
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    OK, for what its worth:

    I have had almost the exact same debate with my kool-aid drinking relatives regarding guns and mary-j....

    I agree with Janq that both do share parallels; Their take on it is the same as has been posted. Mine is different; I remember when they passed all the drug testing laws and why they began doing so. The fight over this was a devastating blow to our constitutional freedoms, in my opinion that was the beginning of the slippery slope we now find ourselves on. For those who may not remember, back in 1990 or thereabouts a massive train wreck occurred that caught the attention of the national media due to the fact that the engineer operating the train had been smoking marijuana; almost overnight the media propaganda began, with all of the scientific studies estimating a full 2/3 or so of our workforce was stoned, drunk or drugged on the job and that something needed to be done to clean it up. Of course, it was justified by politicians by cloaking it in the "interests of public safety" (where have you heard this before?) to amend federal law to allow for random drug & alcohol testing nationwide.

    Of course, the ACLU was all over this issue, and took it all the way to the SCOTUS, where they lost, and now everybody that applies for a job at some point in their lives is subjected to this. And every Tom, Dick & Harry from every employer tells you that they "have a right" and "we can do as we please on our property" regardless of the constitutionality of it all. But what is missed here is that the state, and other accusers essentially shifted the burden of proof from themselves to us. Instead of us telling them to prove their accusations while being safe and secure in our persons, we have to prove it to them, without any probable cause. That in itself was a huge loss of our freedoms.

    And it all occurred because we were afraid to take care of business. One fact that was glossed over by the media in their crusade to sober up our workplaces, was the engineer who wrecked the train that started it all; The guy had been convicted of DWI several times prior to the accident. Supervisors had tried to get rid of the engineer, but his union went to bat for him and he stayed employed, arguing that he was operating trains, not motor vehicles. So the result of all this is now employers are their own little law enforcement agencies, with the power to try and convict you minus the trial, your day in court. Couple that with the fact that our courts have rubber stamped all of this, and you have a loss of freedom, because that boils down to the fact that your employers, as well as your government are now using medical technologies to monitor your off-work behavior.

    In a lot of ways, Things like marijuana and gun ownership are benchmarks for the freedoms we enjoy. It has been a slow evolution over the past 40 years, but we are almost there. As before, the government and media are coming up with endless studies espousing the danger of gun ownership and encouraging doctors to ask children about whether or not their parents have guns in the home; presumably this information will be kept and recorded if national healthcare passes. Because after all, "it is for the childrens' safety"....

    My late Grandfather used to tell me a story that made the rounds in his youth about wild Hogs and how you could easily trap one. He said that you could put out a bucket of feed or slop every day, and the hogs would gather to feed, oblivious of your presence. Then after a day or two, you could erect one side of the pen, and they would still show up to eat the food. Day after day, you could erect another wall to the pen and the Hogs would still come to eat for free. On the last day, you could put up the gate to the pen, close it and lock it, and the Hogs would keep right on feeding, not realizing they had been enslaved.............

    It looks to me as if at least 2 of walls are up around our country and everybody is stuffing their faces.....
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    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    The shortest argument:

    Tell me which law a criminal will obey.

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance22 View Post
    The shortest argument:

    Tell me which law a criminal will obey.
    Ok, the OP was my shortest, changed an anti's opinion, conversation.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    If he's a doper, I'd rethink my friendship with him.

    I do not associate with anyone that is a doper. And I ask. If they hesitate, it's good bye and don't bother talking to me again.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    TN Mike,

    If I was an LE, I would be the same. I'm not LE, and I will be friends with anone who wants and needs a friend. I will be friends with drug users, and all sorts, so long as they never bring it around me. I also alter what I might do with them, if I will travel with them, if I will have them over, etc. But if I can, and there are common interests, I don't let it get in the way.

    Best example is a friend I have who volunteers time to a cause I also volunteer for. We belong to the same charitable group. I enjoy working with him on those projects, or pal around when we go to a party (no illegal drugs), but I've never been at one of his parties and he has never been to my home. I've shared why, and he understands. However, I know if he were to be in the hospital I would go visit him, and I think he would check on me if I was injured. A friend is a friend.
    Last edited by Thanis; July 29th, 2009 at 11:52 PM.
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    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    That was a good one Thanis, you gave your friend a good dose of reason. Now to get him armed.

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