What Changed That Made 2A "Invalid"?

This is a discussion on What Changed That Made 2A "Invalid"? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There is an 11 page thread (at time of this post) arguiing thet armed civilians are no match against a "Modern Army". It is said ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: What Changed That Made 2A "Invalid"?

  1. #1
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    PDRMD
    Posts
    326

    What Changed That Made 2A "Invalid"?

    There is an 11 page thread (at time of this post) arguiing thet armed civilians are no match against a "Modern Army".

    It is said that stating historical past events such as The War of Independence, War of 1812, War of Northern Agression, etc can not be used to contrast the situation that would be applicable today.

    I Agree!

    The question I ask is, WHY!?!

    The War of Independence was not fought between two vastly technologically different forces. Today's situation would severly tip the scales in the favor of a govt sponsored Military Unit.

    Artillery pieces large and small were held as the private property of individuals in colonial times. Firearms were similiar in those days.

    Today, no way.

    The Federal Govt has been over the period of 100 years making it less and less likely that the citizen has the technology to stand up against it.

    I mean todays FFA bans and such would be like limiting the Colonists to Blunderbusses and dueling pistols.

    Am I wrong to say that? Am I wrong to believe this way? Am I missing something?

    MikeV

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    PDRMD
    Posts
    326
    It would be long and bloody, and yes it's possible.

    But that is not my question.

    My question is why did we get to this point where the citizenry is "locked out" so to speak?

    We need to stop arguing the what if's and start figuring a way to fix the mess that we find our selves in.

    Until we figure out why, we may not figure out the how.

    Mike
    Last edited by MIKEV; July 29th, 2009 at 03:53 PM. Reason: wrong word

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    792
    Fixing the mess is a great plan.. Do ya have any ideas???

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array shooterX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,849
    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Fixing the mess is a great plan.. Do ya have any ideas???
    What ever the plan, I feel it should start with voting every Senator and Representative out of Office and replacing them with individuals that know and understand the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    792
    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    What ever the plan, I feel it should start with voting every Senator and Representative out of Office and replacing them with individuals that know and understand the Constitution.

    Great!!!.... Now where do we find them??? They're names are never on the ballot's.... Ya have to be corrupt to get into politics,.. I think they get the candidate's from the IRS tax fraud file...

  7. #6
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    PDRMD
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Fixing the mess is a great plan.. Do ya have any ideas???
    Actually I do. Now if I sound like a lunatic, well so be it.

    1stly wether or not we agree that the 2A is applicable to the states is besides the point in this discussion.

    The 2A is a restriction on the Feds. As such we must agree that the wording doesn't protect against "unreasonable" infringements. It protects against INFRINGEMENT.

    All Federal Firearm Laws must be repealed! We must make our voices heard in the halls of Washington D.C.

    We must support those that would side with us and oppose those who would side against us.

    We must not blindly rely on our Govt for anything. Trust but Verify was a slogan used by a Man I much respected may he rest in peace. I think we have done too much of the former and not nearly enough of the latter. I don't think we can trust anymore.

    The part I don't have an answer for is how to combat the lies that the anti's would spread against us. Any Ideas?

    Mike

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array shooterX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,849
    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Great!!!.... Now where do we find them??? They're names are never on the ballot's.... Ya have to be corrupt to get into politics,.. I think they get the candidate's from the IRS tax fraud file...
    Hey I didn't say it would be easy, and your right, they are recruited from the IRS fraus files.

  9. #8
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    There is an 11 page thread (at time of this post) arguiing thet armed civilians are no match against a "Modern Army".

    It is said that stating historical past events such as The War of Independence, War of 1812, War of Northern Agression, etc can not be used to contrast the situation that would be applicable today.

    I Agree!

    The question I ask is, WHY!?!

    The War of Independence was not fought between two vastly technologically different forces. Today's situation would severly tip the scales in the favor of a govt sponsored Military Unit.

    Artillery pieces large and small were held as the private property of individuals in colonial times. Firearms were similiar in those days.

    Today, no way.

    The Federal Govt has been over the period of 100 years making it less and less likely that the citizen has the technology to stand up against it.

    I mean todays FFA bans and such would be like limiting the Colonists to Blunderbusses and dueling pistols.

    Am I wrong to say that? Am I wrong to believe this way? Am I missing something?

    MikeV
    United we stand! Divided we fall!

    Politicians and news media have done a wonderful job dividing America. Well done on their part because none of us can get along.

    Liberal and Conservative have become bad words with neither side able to see the other side's point any longer. The Republican party has divided among itself, and the Democratic party has divided among it self. Further gaps growing in the divide, and fissures growing between each. That makes for a shaky platform.

    Neither party knows what it means to belong to either party. They've all lost their meaning, they've all lost their way. It is chaos upon chaos, stupidity upon ignorance. And it is only getting worse.

    Divided we fall.....and boy have we fallen. There is so much blame to go around it is ludicrous to blame either side. Yet that is exactly what each side does the first chance it gets. They just scream at each other, thinking that the LOUDER ONE WILL WIN!

    And we the people are stupid, and ignorant, and we want to stay that way. As soon as the media puts out a new shiny toy in the form of some pathetic non story, we forget any real issues.

    This is a country that spent how may weeks talking about the Octomom? This is a country that is the only one stupid enough to even HAVE an Octomom. Skyrocketing medical costs, and we have an Octomom living off the state?

    How many weeks did we talk about Miss California?

    We have the attention span of babies. Its ridiculous. No one can think for themselves, they just believe whatever news media they choose to watch and take it as gospel. The news is nothing but entertainment yet people seem to forget that. There was a time when news was about news, but that died many years ago. Now it is about ratings and advertising dollars.

    Forget the real issues. Just toss out some tiny new trinket for the morons to look at. And in five minutes we will be able to pass any law we want. Who cares about America, as long as we can watch our "Reality" TV, life is good.

    And for the politicians they just love it. They love to turn their lap dog media loose on the people. And we are soooooooo easy to fool as a people it is like taking candy from that baby. Americans have become scared, jittery and easily panic stricken. And the politicians use the media to scare us into any corner they want.

    Fear of everything, fear of terror, fear of germs, fear of each other, fear of ourselves, fear of fear itself!

    As they say; If you can spin it, you can win it!

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    913
    Technology and the access to it, that's what changed.

    You can't buy the sophisticated weapons systems that a Governemnt (any Governement) can.

    I'm not going to be discussing guerrilla war and the citizenry.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    One of the ways we arrived here was reinterpreting laws, reinterpreting rulings, and rewriting history.

    In one of the most famous cases Miller ruled that a sawed off shotgun was NOT in common use by the military therefore not protected by the second amendment. That ruling in 1939 means that at that time only the military weapons were covered. Specifically the 1911, and the M-1, or at that time the recently used 1903 Springfield. Brought to this day, the Fully Auto M-14, M-16/M-4(Civ AR-15) , M-9(Civ Beretta 92), and the 1911 are covered by Miller.

    The Liberals and the Media have reinterpreted/rewritten this to mean that Miller says the National Guard is covered by 2A not individuals, and it has been this way since the founding of the country. This overall rewriting of history is supported by the schools, colleges, and Mass Media.

    Ronald Reagan said:
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    This is true, and if they can convince our children that 2a covers the national guard only then in 20 years that will be true since people will not be defending their right.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

  12. #11
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    Folks, folks, folks!

    This is not the thread for discussing wheter or not the us army would fire on it's citizens or wether a determined citizenry would prevail agains a modern military.

    This is about what happened along the way that lead us to the point that we have this discussion? What changed that took arms out of the hands of the citizens and held them only for the Govt forces.

    Why is it that I can't go to the local Gun shop and buy a select fire combat rifle, a squad automatic weapon, a mortor tube or even an artillery piece.

    These are all avail to Govt Military.

    The colonial equivalants were avail to the colonists. Why did that change?

    MikeV
    Because at some point, someone decided that the police force was more than capable of protecting us before criminals most evil deeds became common place. Then they decided that YOU didn't need those guns anymore.

    Saw a post on the Reader website about the OC in San Diego. Para-phrasing.. "San Diego has such a large and capable police force, why would you think you need to carry a gun?" That's how we got to this point. So many people giving power over to the government to take care of them and it's not just with the guns.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

    NRA Member / Ohio Conceal Carry Instructor
    CHL Holder

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    So, the gov't says "you don't need these high tech, powerful destructive weapons, we'll protect you, we'll never harm you. If we let you have them, you'll shoot your eye out." As they pat us on the head, give us a swine flu shot in the rear and confiscate our tin foil hats.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,036
    It was started by the 'Progressive movement' in the 1930's
    Get the U.N. out of the U.S.
    Get the U.S. out of the U.N.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    So, the gov't says "you don't need these high tech, powerful destructive weapons, we'll protect you, we'll never harm you. If we let you have them, you'll shoot your eye out." As they pat us on the head, give us a swine flu shot in the rear and confiscate our tin foil hats.
    My tinfoil hat is camaflouged under a Ball Cap,it weighs about 5lbs

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    Why is it that I can't go to the local Gun shop and buy a select fire combat rifle, a squad automatic weapon, a mortor tube or even an artillery piece.

    These are all avail to Govt Military.

    The colonial equivalants were avail to the colonists. Why did that change?

    MikeV
    Specifically it was:
    Gun Control Act of 1968, Pub. L. No. 90-618
    ATF - The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618


    Here is a link to Wikipedia which does a pretty good job of explaining the law.
    Gun Control Act of 1968 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is what established 21 to buy a handgun, FFL Licensing, and a lot more. It in itself is a violation of the second amendment, and should be challenged in a post Heller world.

    Thank LBJ for this one.
    http://www.answers.com/topic/gun-control-act-of-1968

    After the Murders of JFK and MLK Johnson used the outcry to pass the Gun Control Act, it would not normally have passed but never let a good crisis go to waste. There is a lesson in this, Obama will use the best crisis he gets to pass similar violations of 2A.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

  16. #15
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,188
    19 posts have been removed for being off topic, as stated in the OP, there is a HUGE thread regarding civilian vs. military actions, this is not that thread. THIS thread is about the disparity of arms between Armed Forces/LE and the civilian population and how we got the short end of the stick.


    Any further posts deviating from the topic of THIS thread will be removed and infractions for thread hi-jacking will be given.

    Carry on.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. TN: "Guns havenít changed state parks"
    By paramedic70002 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 15th, 2010, 04:36 PM
  2. Questions " Changed Address"
    By FireAir7215 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 15th, 2009, 12:20 PM
  3. I got "made" wearing my body armor, sort of
    By jiggz01 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: July 5th, 2006, 06:27 AM