Tea parties and Town Hall meetings

This is a discussion on Tea parties and Town Hall meetings within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by rodc13 Interesting how the right-wingers are acting just like the sheep they purport to abhor. Being led around into orchestrated disruptions. Of ...

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Thread: Tea parties and Town Hall meetings

  1. #31
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Interesting how the right-wingers are acting just like the sheep they purport to abhor. Being led around into orchestrated disruptions. Of course, the goal of the groups promoting all of this is not to get real answers, but just to disrupt.

    It goes to show how easily they're all led around by their noses when their only sources of news are Faux News and guys like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, financed by lots and lots of corporate health care cash. It proves the old principle: If you can shut down the discussion, winning the argument is not necessary.

    Added to the absurdity of the birthers and the teabaggers are the deathers, spouting the latest and most outrageous propagandistic lies regarding euthanasia and eugenics. It's not at all surprising that the same script seems to show up at each of these "organic" protests.

    A sheep by any other name is still a sheep.
    As opposed the critical thinker you seem to be.

    If you actually believe this is some operation being orchestrated by the nefarious powers that be at the highest echelons of the Republican Party using paid stormtroopers who are merely out to be disruptive, you're every bit the sheep you call others.

    Your statements are pretty much cut and pasted from Moveon.org, HuffPo, and Olbermann. Propaganda.

    I did see some real health care reform (or is health-insurance reform now?) advocates at the Denver rally. They were all holding pre-printed signs that they all spontaneously ginned up that morning stating the exact same thing. And they all met up at Home Depot that morning. Oh, and they were all illegal aliens. And paid to hold signs by the local DNC chapter. There's your "organic" Obamacare rally.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    T

    Thuggish behavior is what I am seeing, and it won't enhance the goals of those who engage in it. It just makes them look like fools. What is being done is extremely inappropriate, and anti-democratic.

    Think Brown Shirts in the early 1930s Germany.
    PRECISELY!! Perhaps soon the media will begin reporting on the anti-democratic tactics of the union thugs at recent townhall events. If America doesn't wake up and acknowledge the antics of the Brown Shirts dressed in SEIU clothing, we'll all be in trouble. Leading the way is no less than the President of the US, with his recent 'call to arms,' encouraging this type of violent behavior among his supporters.

    Glad to see we agree on this on Hopyard.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    I also fought in Vietnam in 1967 and 1968 along the DMZ while we were shelled every day for a few months. Before the war was over, John Kerry and his like were running acting like hippies with flags upside down. The cover of Kerry's book "New Soldier, copyright 1972 and 2004" shows a bunch of hippies flying the flag upside down (supposedly your symbol of distress), and mocking the raising of the flag at IWO JIMA.

    Distress? I asked the hippie bubba if I should call an ambulance for him [for his distress], and it was declined. As to you and the hippie bubbas, you can have your type of free speech. It is a damn shame that a bunch of hippies have taken over the Republican party. I'll stay away from your tea parties in the future.
    So were they hippies or bubbas? Don't think I've ever seen someone confuse the two.

    Anyway, simmer down. I'm sure we agree on more than we disagree, but I don't advocate any "type" of free speech. If it's protected, it's protected. It seems this was clearly protected, regardless of how much it irritated you.

    Thank your for your service. I'll be sure to pass on your disdain of the Air Force in your other post to my old man. He flew 30+ missions in a C-130 during the siege of Khe Sahn and was later shot down airdropping supplies to an ODA team.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Unfortunately, the Honorable Senator Bennett of Colorado is having invitation only "private conferences" <Coward>, and the Honorable Senator Udall is sitting on his thumbs sending out the same form letter for any constituent letter he receives.

    Our Representative (the Honorable Douglas Lamborn), is all on fours with me, and we don't "need " a town meeting. He is also a big 2A fella!

    The Dems are getting some real flak from what I hear.
    Happening in VA also.

    Perriello town hall meeting heats up - Roanoke.com

    Perriello town hall meeting heats up
    Health care dominated the debate at the lawmaker's sixth meeting during the August recess.
    By Janelle Rucker
    981-3159

    BEDFORD -- Tempers flared and emotions were high Saturday morning during a health care-themed town hall meeting hosted by 5th District Rep. Tom Perriello.

    About 300 people packed into the cafeteria of Bedford Elementary School for the sixth in a series of town hall meetings that Perriello, the Albemarle County Democrat, is hosting this month.

    "Whether you support me or think I'm the dumbest guy on the planet, thanks for coming out," Perriello began the meeting. In the end, the discussion was the "most heated and liveliest" of the town hall meetings so far, he said.

    Flustered and frustrated faces filled the crowded room. And while most speakers thanked the congressman for coming and giving them an opportunity to speak, it didn't stop some from heckling and yelling at him and one another.

    Because of time constraints, Perriello wasn't able to meet one-on-one with constituents as in previous meetings. But he did take more than two dozen questions and comments from the audience.

    Identifying themselves as veterans, retired nurses and caregivers of elderly family members, a majority of the speakers were against the same thing: a health care system run by the federal government.

    "We are for health care reform," said Salem resident C.J. Duhon. "We are against more government."

    Duhon does not live in Perriello's district, which stretches from Charlottesville south to the North Carolina boarder, but was one of many speakers who felt the topic was important enough to travel to Bedford.

    Duhon insisted that there are other ways to reform the health care system that aren't being looked at, but gave no examples.

    Others expressed concern about the 2.5 percent tax under the proposed plan on those who don't have insurance. One man suggested that Congress lower taxes so he can afford his health insurance.

    Other concerns included increased red tape, mandatory end-of-life plans with government counselors and the government's access to personal bank accounts to ensure payment for services.

    "Some [opposition] is genuine, some is misinformation," Perriello said.

    Overall, Perriello said he thinks people are taking an ideological stand on the issue and are against government involvement.

    As the bill stands now, Perriello said, he's leaning toward voting against it but there still are aspects that can be changed or eliminated.

    "I'd like to get to a plan that I can support," he said, admitting that many probably won't agree on the result.

    Perriello was one of 22 freshman congressmen who wrote a letter opposing tax penalties for small businesses that don't provide health care to their employees. He said he is against a single-payer system and will not vote on a health care bill that includes federal funding for abortions.

    Retired Navy veteran Chuck Bell of Rustburg said he's against "public health care" and promised to walk door to door campaigning against Perriello if he voted for the bill.

    "I will consult my constituents, my conscience and do what's best," Perriello said, adding that he's OK if Bell campaigns against him if he disagrees with Perriello's performance. "Let the chips fall where they may."

    Like a rally, handmade signs were displayed among the crowd. "If ObamaCare is so great, sign Congress up for it FIRST," read one sign. Those approaching the school were greeted with a sign reading, "Obama's gift to our children: $4 trillion in debt."

    The American Clean Energy and Security Act, also known as the cap-and-trade bill, wasn't discussed as much as health care, but interest was high.

    Most in the room were against the energy and climate change bill, and Perriello has come under fire for supporting it.

    "I absolutely stand by my vote," he told the crowd that quickly filled the room with boos.

    Perriello sees the bill as a step toward energy independence. It includes investments in the use of clean coal and allows farmers to consider growing other crops that could be used in alternative energy production.

    The legislation also works specifically for the 5th District, Perriello said, because he sees alternative energy as the "next big thing" for Southside.

    The town hall meetings will resume in Greene County on Monday and Charlottesville on Tuesday. He will return to the area Aug. 26 for a town hall meeting in Franklin County.

    The meetings are "a monthlong conversation with the American people" about their thoughts on health care, Perriello said. He said he has met some very strong opposition but many can "agree to disagree."
    FWIIW -- His district is over the mountain east of me; so I wasn't there. However, I talked to someone, from there, who was at the town hall meeting and said that Perriello and the Roanoke Time put a lot of positive spin on it.
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    So were they hippies or bubbas? Don't think I've ever seen someone confuse the two.
    The difference in costuming was that these men were in camouflage. The similarities were the unshaven appearance and the fact that both groups enjoyed flying the American flag upside down while claiming that they were in distress.
    Thank your for your service. I'll be sure to pass on your disdain of the Air Force in your other post to my old man. He flew 30+ missions in a C-130 during the siege of Khe Sahn and was later shot down airdropping supplies to an ODA team. .
    The Air Force rating was certainly not directed toward your father, but more likely was some ill chosen humor directed to his son [but the Marine part definitely was not humor]. My unit was there shooting for Khe Sanh during the same time period as your father, and I probably saw your father pass above me on more than one occasion, where we saluted those big faithful birds on which I had the privilege to ride on several occasions. I honor your father for his service. I truly believe that if he had been with me at the tea party meeting, we would have been working together to upright the flag under which he served and which was being dishonored in our very presence. We both would have understood the differences in the legitimate use of the American flag as a sign of distress and the misuse of the American flag as a mere sign of political protest.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    I
    Added to the absurdity of the birthers and the teabaggers are the deathers, spouting the latest and most outrageous propagandistic lies regarding euthanasia and eugenics. It's not at all surprising that the same script seems to show up at each of these "organic" protests.

    A sheep by any other name is still a sheep.
    This is absolutely none of my gov's business! It is a decision that is tough enough to make as a family. NOONE, should be required to put up with this from a gov official! There's some pretty screwed up stuff in it. It's not too hard to guess that the gov could stretch some of this language into some bad stuff.

    Page 429

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

    (B) An advance care planning consultation with re-
    spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
    than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
    change in the health condition of the individual, including
    diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
    life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
    injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
    long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
    a hospice program.

    (4) A consultation under this subsection may in-
    clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
    treatment or a similar order.
    ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
    regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
    to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
    the treatment of that individual that—

  8. #37
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    p 431-432 even better!

    (A) INGENERAL.—For purposes of re-
    porting data on quality measures for covered
    professional services furnished during 2011 and
    any subsequent year, to the extent that meas-
    ures are available, the Secretary shall include
    quality measures on end of life care and ad-
    vanced care planning that have been adopted or
    endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if
    appropriate. Such measures shall measure both
    the creation of and adherence to orders for life-
    sustaining treatment.


    Does this give anyone else cold chills?
    "have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization"

  9. #38
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    Even more chilling is that "life-sustaining treatment" can be interpreted to include nutrition and hydration. If they think you're not worth the effort to keep alive, they will literally starve you and let you die of thirst.

  10. #39
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    The Air Force rating was certainly not directed toward your father, but more likely was some ill chosen humor directed to his son [but the Marine part definitely was not humor].
    Quite the chance you and my father are alike. Direct heat my way all you like, but my father's sons (all two of us) have several hundred hours of combat time ourselves. I, myself, love the Army, Navy, & Marine Corps and completely embrace the concept of joint ops and understand it for the force multiplier it is. I don't like to see anyone disrespect the flag, either, and it would surely chap my a** if I thought it was happening. That doesn't give me the right to whup 'em, as much as I might like.

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    I hope you realize no disrespect was intended by the right wing "bubbas," as you stereotypically label them. Flying the flag upside down is a signal of distress, which many people clearly believe is appropriate right now...
    USC Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8.a - The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
    In other words, if you are not in a situation where you would draw your concealed handgun in self-defense, you should not be flying the flag upside down. Flying the flag upside down is a signal of extreme, immediate danger to life or property, not one of political frustration.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  12. #41
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357 View Post
    In other words, if you are not in a situation where you would draw your concealed handgun in self-defense, you should not be flying the flag upside down. Flying the flag upside down is a signal of extreme, immediate danger to life or property, not one of political frustration.
    Well, not really. If I was trapped on a deserted island with no water, flying the flag upside down might help. Drawing wouldn't help much.

    At any rate, debating whether or not the protesters were correct in flying the flag as they did is extremely appropriate and a worthy one. Debating whether or not the OP was correct in attempting to relieve of them of their property, despite his very real (and probably justified) anger, isn't a worthy endeavor. He was wrong.

  13. #42
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    You still have to love a Country that will tolerate the expression of speech displayed.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  14. #43
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    Consultation

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    This is absolutely none of my gov's business! —
    The proposed law forces no one to do anything in regard to consultations. It only makes a provision to pay a doctor once each 5 years if the patient decides that they wish to consult with the doctor.

    Everyone, absolutely everyone, should have a Living Will and a Directive to Physicians, and should give those documents to their doctor so that they are in his records. All the proposal does is make provision to pay the doc for the time involved.

    This is one provision which has been distorted for political gain by frightening the gullible.

    If you don't want to prepare a living will and don't want to prepare an advanced directive, and don't want to give those instructions to your doctor, or discuss end of life issues with your doctor, there is nothing in the proposed legislation that forces you to do so.

    Patient choice is preserved.

  15. #44
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    This provision is a protection for patients

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    p 431-432 even better!

    (A) INGENERAL.—For purposes of re-
    porting data on quality measures for covered
    professional services furnished during 2011 and
    any subsequent year, to the extent that meas-
    ures are available, the Secretary shall include
    quality measures on end of life care and ad-
    vanced care planning that have been adopted or
    endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if
    appropriate. Such measures shall measure both
    the creation of and adherence to orders for life-
    sustaining treatment.


    Does this give anyone else cold chills?
    "have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization"
    This provision is actually a protection for patients. Note where it says that there will be a measure of adherence to orders for life
    sustaining treatment. In other words, if your desire is to preserve
    your life to the bitter end, against all odds, there will be a mechanism to measure adherence to such directives.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    You still have to love a Country that will tolerate the expression of speech displayed.
    Yes I love such a country. On an equal basis, I also love a country that gives political groups and gatherings the right to exclude protestors from their meetings. The constitution does not grant one the right to sabotage or disrupt a group's meeting.

    I can see it now. Out of a sense of free speech and fairness, the upside down hippie flag bearers will be permitted (if not invited) to attend the next Republican Convention. The TV cameras will focus on them to the exclusion of the important things that are taking place at the convention. After all, if the Tea Party organizers should be required to allow this type of "free speech" why shouldn't the GOP allow it.

    On the other hand, if Holger's father and I are in charge of the convention (or Tea Party agenda as the case may be), these characters will be required to do their upside down flag protests at their own rally elsewhere.

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