Tea parties and Town Hall meetings

This is a discussion on Tea parties and Town Hall meetings within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Patient choice is preserved. Here's an article expressing why nobody believes you will be able to maintain your "choice" of health ...

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Thread: Tea parties and Town Hall meetings

  1. #46
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    Patient choice is preserved.
    Here's an article expressing why nobody believes you will be able to maintain your "choice" of health care if this thing passes.

    RealClearPolitics - Government Health Care in Stealth Mode

    This whole bill is a precursor to a single-payer system, and that's the intent of its proponents.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    This provision is actually a protection for patients. Note where it says that there will be a measure of adherence to orders for life
    sustaining treatment. In other words, if your desire is to preserve
    your life to the bitter end, against all odds, there will be a mechanism to measure adherence to such directives.
    I have kicked around on the bill a bit. IANAL, so some of it I cannot make heads or tails of. I saw a post on another board that outlined some of the problems. I used that to make my searching easier. What I can tell you is this. The bill never comes out and says some of the things that I have heard. No surprise there. However, the vagueness of the language and the direction that the gov could take this bill are my concern. No I don't trust the gov with my healthcare.

    In the last part I quoted I really shudder at the this...

    "the Secretary shall include
    quality measures on end of life care and ad-
    vanced care planning that have been adopted or
    endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if
    appropriate. "

    So who is the consensus based org.? "If appropriate" is one of those catch all phrases that allows most anything to happen. It also specifically mentions end of life care and advanced planning. I'm not against them, I'm against a consensus-based gov organization adopting or endorsing them. That's a discussion for doctor/patient/family period. I want no gov involvement, research, study, opinion, recommendation..... nothing! Undoubtedly you trust them more than I do. That's fine for you. But all of us who are against this are not "sheep being led by big money." BTW, I don't even have cable, so no Fox news for me. Where are you getting all your info? I'm curious.

  4. #48
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    if you are not in a situation where you would draw your concealed handgun in self-defense, you should not be flying the flag upside down.
    Not sure where the statute says that, or how you get that specific interpretation.

    ...as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
    Seems to me that this proposal may qualify as an "extreme danger to life or property."

    Not saying I agree or disagree with that assessment, but I can certainly see how people might see it that way.

  5. #49
    Member Array yzcrasher's Avatar
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    Freedom of speech in NOT about the ability to say what you want. It's about others having the ability to say what you don't like. I for one will not "get in the way" of someone holding a flag upside down. If they want to publically prove they are idiots, so be it. Regardless of the message the ability to say it must be respected.
    ((Place funny, whitty comment here))

  6. #50
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    I've come across plenty of people who are flying flags upside-down. People as patriotic as anybody here, and some veterans.

    The reason I think it is inappropriate, is the attitude of some posters here; they get so wrapped around the axle about the "insult" to the flag, that they become totally deaf to the intended message. This is like lefty protests where a camera crew tapes some knobs burning a flag, and nobody notices the mob turning over cars, and throwing firebombs. Look at the shiny ball! Get it! Get it!

    We have let the socialists usurp power in this country because we gave them free rein in their tactics and hysterical lies, and our side just sat there, because we were silent, genteel, and polite. They called us nazis, and racists, and for forty years we just stood here looking down, and shuffled our feet, NOT refuting what they said. They indoctrinated your children, and now your grandchildren are ready to put granny in a headlock, til she signs that "do not rescucitate" order.

    For all this noise, I think this bill will pass. They are not listening, and they mean to seize control of the medical industry.
    They mean to steal your money, your freedom, and eventually, your life. They have ACORN's votes, they don't need yours.

    I call that distress.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    We have let the socialists usurp power in this country because we gave them free rein in their tactics and hysterical lies, and our side just sat there, because we were silent, genteel, and polite. They called us nazis, and racists, and for forty years we just stood here looking down, and shuffled our feet, NOT refuting what they said. They indoctrinated your children, and now your grandchildren are ready to put granny in a headlock, til she signs that "do not rescucitate" order.
    The most ludicrous comment here is that the birthers, tea-baggers, deathers and their ilk have been "silent, genteel, and polite." They've been nothing of the sort, and obviously aren't interested in an actual discussion. They'd much rather shout "They're gonna kill yer granny!" because the sheeple will buy into it.

    Pharmaceutical industry shills and Republican operatives like Tim Phillips and his Americans for Prosperity group have been bussing people across the country to be "grass-roots" protesters. Phillips, of course, is a 9-year veteran of Century Strategies, the lobbying firm made famous by Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed.

    So now, in addition to Birthers, Deathers, and Tea-baggers, we have the artificial, bought-and-paid-for version of grass-roots: Astro-turfers. And it looks like the sheeple are falling for that bit of fakery, too. It might leave a bad taste when and if they discover just how phony it is.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  8. #52
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    cwblanco hanging the flag upside down is the TRADITIONAL way for soldiers in their forts during the pioneer days to notify scouts they were in distress and needed back up. This has nothing to do with john kerry and the hippies;

  9. #53
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    The most ludicrous comment here is that the birthers, tea-baggers, deathers and their ilk have been "silent, genteel, and polite." They've been nothing of the sort, and obviously aren't interested in an actual discussion. They'd much rather shout "They're gonna kill yer granny!" because the sheeple will buy into it.

    Pharmaceutical industry shills and Republican operatives like Tim Phillips and his Americans for Prosperity group have been bussing people across the country to be "grass-roots" protesters. Phillips, of course, is a 9-year veteran of Century Strategies, the lobbying firm made famous by Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed.

    So now, in addition to Birthers, Deathers, and Tea-baggers, we have the artificial, bought-and-paid-for version of grass-roots: Astro-turfers. And it looks like the sheeple are falling for that bit of fakery, too. It might leave a bad taste when and if they discover just how phony it is.
    Oh how OFFENSIVE loud protest is, now that the leftys are in power, and conservatives are showing up in droves!

    I have not encountered ANY paid protesters at TEA parties, nobody "bussed in". All anybody needs to see is the obvious home made signs they carry, as opposed to the identical professionally printed signs carried by ACORN, SEIU, and the pro illegal immigration protests.

    You are just lying.

  10. #54
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    The most ludicrous comment here is that the birthers, tea-baggers, deathers and their ilk have been "silent, genteel, and polite." They've been nothing of the sort, and obviously aren't interested in an actual discussion. They'd much rather shout "They're gonna kill yer granny!" because the sheeple will buy into it.

    Pharmaceutical industry shills and Republican operatives like Tim Phillips and his Americans for Prosperity group have been bussing people across the country to be "grass-roots" protesters. Phillips, of course, is a 9-year veteran of Century Strategies, the lobbying firm made famous by Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed.

    So now, in addition to Birthers, Deathers, and Tea-baggers, we have the artificial, bought-and-paid-for version of grass-roots: Astro-turfers. And it looks like the sheeple are falling for that bit of fakery, too. It might leave a bad taste when if they discover just how phony it is.
    You are completely blind. Post links on here that prove any of your accusations (well, links to reputable sources, not DU). I'm on every GOP mailing list and read dozens of conservative (as well as very progressive) websites. I've yet to be recruited in this nefarious astro-turfing scheme, and the thousands of elderly people at these townhall meetings are most assuredly NOT internet-based astroturfers. For you to say otherwise is preposterous. To keep believing this is manufactured outrage will surely put your progessive movement in peril in the '10 midterms.

    Now you, my friend, seem like you're actually interested in civil discussion. Once I waded past your "birther," "teabagger" (BTW...homophobic at all?), and "deather" comments, I had to get through your Abramoff/Reed bogeymen, and then after I made it by the "sheeple" insult, I was able to see your desire for genuine and intelligent discussion.

    By the way, the average American does not know what "birther" or "deather" means, and they're not immediately thrown into hysterics by the mere mention of Jack Abramoff or Ralph Reed. On the other hand, rigidly loyal and rabid footsoldiers of the MoveOn/Keith O/Randi Rhodes/Kos echo chamber are quite versed in the obligatory talking points. Hmmm...I wonder into which group you fall.

    I'd call you a sheep of the liberal persuasion, but you're more like a lemming. You're going willingly off the cliff, all the while thinking the people leading you have your best interests at heart. Odd.

  11. #55
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post

    You are just lying.
    That's the weird thing, though. He really believes he's telling the truth. It's almost like a pathology.

  12. #56
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    I'm going to A town hall with my congress critter in a couple weeks. I mean to record it, especially if the SEIU bully boys start brawling.

  13. #57
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    That's the weird thing, though. He really believes he's telling the truth. It's almost like a pathology.
    I try to be charitable to ignorant people who believe their untruths, but people like him can be swimming in facts, and deny it.

    People like that are not innocently misled, they are willfully obtuse.

  14. #58
    Member Array hybrid's Avatar
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    only one time in my area some kids with card board signs tried to angry the people we just let them be.

    whoever came up with this blue vs reds is a genius we are distracted fighting each other instead of paying attention to them, to me both parties "NOT the people", are the same now days look what a great liberal bush was, and the pathetic candidate the dems putted against him in re-election. also look at this election and hear what great conservative speeches he gave to win.

    I hate that we keep fighting this stupid republicrats vs demoblicans and dont pay attention to where it's due.

    all those who worship the free healthcare never experienced it before I have, those who come from one and love it, never experienced going to the poor branch like I did, it's awful, you see there is still going to be 2 kinds of one for us and one for the rich "excuse me the 250K or less a year middle class", except the one for us will be worst than it is. the wealthy always go to the private care.

    I love the Tea parties and so do my dems and reps buddies.
    dear dems go read what the tea party is all about and PLEASE so do you reps.

    I came to America to be American, I seen all this already and it pains me that if I have kids they might have to live with what I lived, I hope I'm awfully wrong.
    NO 3rd party disputes

    The power of imagination is the key to life.

    It helps you think ahead, consider the possibilities,and prepare you for the future.
    If you lack that ability, you're no different from livestock trapped behind a fence.

  15. #59
    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorw View Post
    I was honored to speak at a tea party in my town. Because I am a member of the clergy, I got ripped in the newspaper by some clown who does not understand that politics affect religion. For example, hate crime legislation will make it illegal for me to call a behavior sinful. Forgive me for suggesting that we pray for our nation and our leaders. I just don't understand what is so hateful about that?

    We may be frustrated by different things, but we need to respect each other when we protest. Our event was peaceful. Unfortunately, that angered some people....
    I add this to our prayer request list in Sunday School class every weekend.
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
    1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    cwblanco hanging the flag upside down is the TRADITIONAL way for soldiers in their forts during the pioneer days to notify scouts they were in distress and needed back up. This has nothing to do with john kerry and the hippies;
    I am surprised to learn that some folks are unable to discern the difference in true distress in the context of the federal statute, and distress which is of a political nature. If you are bleeding to death, out of air, will die of starvation in the next 24 hours, or some thug is about to shoot you, then please be my guest and fly your flag upside down I will will immediately come to your rescue, with my safety off, and an extra mag ready. On the other hand, please do not fly your flag upside down if you merely are out of beer or pot.

    The old pioneer soldier would have kicked someone's rear if he were to have come charging into the fort while dodging arrows and snipers so that he could answer to the call of an upside down flag, only to learn that the signaled distress was that of some soldier was unhappy with a bill pending in congress.

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