Mediocre gun states

Mediocre gun states

This is a discussion on Mediocre gun states within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Which states in your opinion would you consider having mediocre gun laws. States that are not as restrictive as say NJ, MA, HI, CA etc... ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Mediocre gun states

    Which states in your opinion would you consider having mediocre gun laws. States that are not as restrictive as say NJ, MA, HI, CA etc... but not as relaxed as AK, VT, KY, MT, ND etc...

    Why do you believe these states are like this (AWB, bans on carry, NFA restrictions, mag limits etc... they may have one or two of these restrictions but not all) and what gets them this mediocre rating and why?

    Discuss.


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    Every state has some laws that are restrictive to a point. Some states much worse that others. IL and WI are both anti CC states. Others such as NY, NJ, CA, HI as well as a few others are anti unless you are wealthy or politically connected. Even states like VA, FL and TX which are considered very gun friendly have idiosyncrasies in their laws. VA for example you can not CC in an establishment that serves alcohol, but you can OC. TX and FL prohibit OC. Several states (considered gun friendly) put restrictions on carrying at sporting events/locations that charge admission/ public gatherings. Still others will not provide reciprocity with other states.

    Many laws are written the way they are because it was a compromise that was made to get CC passed. There is no perfect gun friendly state, and I doubt you will ever see one that is.

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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Every state has some laws that are restrictive to a point.

    There is no perfect gun friendly state, and I doubt you will ever see one that is.
    I have one state for you: Vermont. Due to rock solid court precedent it has no laws that are in any way restrictive in comparison to Federal law.

    Ryan

    I'm here in California, because anything closer to what I consider an ideal climate doesn't exist in any U.S. jurisdiction.

    Well, I also grew up here so that might play a small part :).
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Every state has some laws that are restrictive to a point. Some states much worse that others. IL and WI are both anti CC states. Others such as NY, NJ, CA, HI as well as a few others are anti unless you are wealthy or politically connected.
    NY has some stupid laws for sure but you do not have to be wealthy or politically connected to get a permit to CC. Do not confuse NYC with NYS.
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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Georgia definitlely is not on this list. Although there are a few laws I wish were rewritten or abolished I still think that for the most part our state is right on pro-gun.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    CCW Endorsment (permit)

    If you want to get a good CCW, It needs to be Missouri, Utah or Florida.

    It is purely political and how one attorney general deals with another to bargain for equal or better law. I think it is a game they play. Reciprocity in any of these states is better than any others. Missouri is best but you must be a resident. If you are not a resident and and say from Illinois where there is no Concealed Carry Law, we teach Florida or Utah. It is not as good in as many states as MO but gives you the right to carry concealed with reciprocity in several states.
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    Alaska for the most part has extremely lax gun laws, meaning Alaska's state government realizes that the law abiding citizens aren't the ones committing violent crimes. Here in the Last Frontier guns are every bit part of our culture as fishing and oil drilling and we love our big guns because we have big wild animals.

    The concealed carry law here that was changed back in 2003 was meant for the people in the bush who couldn't get access to a class very easily. As a result of that there was much confusion over carrying concealed in the larger cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks. Many folks were still under the assumption that you still needed an Alaska Concealed Handgun permit to carry inside the larger cities. Eventually that was cleared up with the preemption law and municipalities are forbidden from enacting stricter laws. The same law extends out to non-residents as well which is nice. Local Law Enforcement is pretty well educated on the gun laws here and many of them support the right to carry. I have yet to run into an LEO that gave me grief for carrying concealed or out in the open. I did decide to get my CCW permit anyway for reciprocity reasons, but have yet to travel outside Alaska.

    We Alaskans hold our 2nd Amendment right close to us and I think anyone from Washington DC that would try to take away that right from us would have a heck of a time doing it!
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    Check: www.BradyCampaign.org

    http://www.stategunlaws.org/xshare/p...d_rankings.pdf

    RANK STATE POINTS
    1 CALIFORNIA 79
    2 NEW JERSEY 63
    T-3 CONNECTICUT 54
    T-3 MASSACHUSETTS 54
    5 MARYLAND 53
    6 NEW YORK 51
    7 RHODE ISLAND 47
    8 HAWAII 43
    9 ILLINOIS 28
    10 PENNSYLVANIA 26
    T-11 DELAWARE 22
    T-11 MICHIGAN 22
    13 NORTH CAROLINA 20
    T-14 OREGON 18
    T-14 VIRGINIA 18
    T-14 WASHINGTON 18
    T-17 COLORADO 16
    T-17 IOWA 16
    19 ALABAMA 15
    20 OHIO 13
    T-21 MAINE 12
    T-21 WISCONSIN 12
    T-23 MINNESOTA 11
    T-23 NEVADA 11
    T-23 NEW HAMPSHIRE 11
    26 NEBRASKA 10
    T-27 SOUTH CAROLINA 9
    T-27 TEXAS 9
    T-27 VERMONT 9
    T-27 WYOMING 9
    T-31 INDIANA 8
    T-31 MONTANA 8
    T-33 GEORGIA 7
    T-33 KANSAS 7
    T-33 TENNESSEE 7
    T-36 ARIZONA 6
    T-36 ARKANSAS 6
    T-36 FLORIDA 6
    T-36 IDAHO 6
    T-36 NEW MEXICO 6
    T-36 SOUTH DAKOTA 6
    42 MISSISSIPPI 5
    T-43 ALASKA 4
    T-43 MISSOURI 4
    T-43 NORTH DAKOTA 4
    T-43 UTAH 4
    T-43 WEST VIRGINIA 4
    T-48 KENTUCKY 2
    T-48 LOUISIANA 2
    T-48 OKLAHOMA 2

    Just remember the source and think negative correlation of value.
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    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    A couple years ago I'd put Kansas in that category, but they're making progress.

    When I first moved there they had no preemption of any sort. Certain localities had their own background check requirements, and transportation laws were a mess.

    Fixed that, then got CC. No state ban on OC, but no preemption either.

    Not long ago, they lifted the ban on NFA, and with the new AG's interpretation they now recognize non-resident state licenses.

    I think next year is a vote to amend the constitution to make RKBA an individual right, so still a ways to go.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    Which states in your opinion would you consider having mediocre gun laws. States that are not as restrictive as say NJ, MA, HI, CA etc... but not as relaxed as AK, VT, KY, MT, ND etc...

    Why do you believe these states are like this (AWB, bans on carry, NFA restrictions, mag limits etc... they may have one or two of these restrictions but not all) and what gets them this mediocre rating and why?

    Discuss.
    I think DE is right in the middle ground for instance:

    May issue with a lot of hoops to jump through to get CCW.

    If you jump through all the hoops you will get your permit.

    Once you have your CCW there are few limitations on where you can carry.

    No full auto, no silencers.

    MD to the south, NJ to the east, bummer.

    PA to the north, excellent.

    No mandatory wait time; state and Federal instant background.

    Open carry is legal with exception AFAIK of Wilmington and Dover.

    Ranges are protected from civil actions by future developement.

    Growing reciprocity.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    MI is mediocre

    Good stuff:
    Shall issue concealed carry.
    Open carry without permit.
    No waiting period.
    Machine guns, AOWs, DDs legal. SBR and SBS legal if C&R gun on a C&R license.
    Castle Doctrine changed from common law to statutory law.
    Stand Your Ground law.
    Civil immunity for justifiable self defense act.
    Full firearm preemption at state level.

    Bad stuff:
    No suppressors.
    SOTs not exempt from SBR/SBS limits.
    Pistol registration (any weapon under 30 inches OAL).
    Stupid transport laws.
    Granholm is still the governor.
    Cox is an asshat.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    If a state isn't realisic about the 2nd Ammendent, it brings their legislative position on the entire U.S. Constitution into plain sight.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  13. #13
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    Yep, OK is tied for dead last.

  14. #14
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    BTW -- if you go the the Brady bunch site, you can see their point system and how your State got its score --e.g., Virginia:

    ASSAULT WEAPONS
    Are there limitations on assault weapons? No

    Virginia - No state restriction on the sale or possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons. Assault weapons are as easy to buy as hunting rifles. Congress and President Bush allowed the federal assault weapons ban to sunset in 2004. See also: Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines

    BALLISTIC FINGERPRINTING
    Must handguns be ballistic fingerprinted prior to sale? No

    No state requirement that gun dealers or manufacturers provide police with sample bullets/cartridges or digital images of bullets/cartridges prior to the sale of a handgun, �ballistic fingerprinting,� which would assist police in tracing bullets at crime scenes to the guns that fired them.

    CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION - CAP
    Are gun owners held accountable for leaving guns accessible to kids? Yes

    State law holds gun owners responsible if they leave a gun easily accessible to a child under 14 years old and the child uses the gun to injure or threaten someone.

    CHILD-SAFETY LOCKS
    Must locking devices be sold with guns? No

    No state requirement that guns be sold with child-safety locks that could prevent a tragic accident. Child-safety locks cost as little as $10 and could save lives if sold with firearms.

    CHILDPROOF HANDGUNS
    Are only authorized users able to operate handguns? No

    Virginia - There is no state law mandating that all new handguns be sold with 'personalized' handgun technology that would only allow the authorized user to operate the firearm. Childproof handguns play an important role in helping to prevent unintentional shootings among children and to deter suicides among minors.

    GUN DEALER REGULATIONS
    Must gun dealers adhere to state licensing and/or oversight systems? Partial

    Virginia - The state requires all firearm dealers to obtain a state license to sell firearms. State law mandates licensed firearm dealers to record and retain all sales records on premises. Law enforcement officials are permitted to conduct random inspections to compare a dealer's inventory with the dealer's sales records in order to identify any off-the-books transactions or other discrepancies. State law mandates that a firearm dealer take steps to ensure his/her inventory is protected and secured. (Examples: Locked inventory, product placement requirements, employee screening, install alarm systems, etc.)

    GUN MANUFACTURER ACCOUNTABILITY
    Do cities have authority to hold gun makers legally liable? No

    State law forbids city and county governments from taking any legal action to hold gun manufacturers accountable, even when they act irresponsibly in the way they design, market or distribute weapons. No other industry enjoys such special immunity for irresponsible conduct.

    GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE
    Are background checks required at gun shows? No

    No state requirement that a Brady criminal background check be done on people buying guns at gun shows if they are sold by "private" individuals or gun "collectors." Gun shows can operate on a "no questions asked, cash-and-carry" basis, making it easy for criminals and even juveniles to buy as many guns as they want at gun shows, including assault weapons. No records are required to be kept on gun show sales by private individuals or gun collectors, making it almost impossible for police to trace such weapons if they are used in a crime.

    GUNS AT WORK
    Are businesses forced to allow guns in the workplace? No

    Virginia - There is no state law forcing employers or businesses to allow guns on their privately held property.

    GUNS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES
    Are colleges/universities forced to allow guns on campus? No

    Virginia - There is no state law forcing colleges/universities to allow guns on campus.

    JUVENILE SALE

    Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

    State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21.

    LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION MAGAZINES
    Are there limitations on large capacity ammunition magazines? No

    Virginia - There is no state law restricting the sale or possession of large capacity ammunition magazines that can fire 30, 50 or even 75 rounds without reloading. Ammunition magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition are considered large capacity magazines. These types of ammunition magazines are available for any firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine, including assault weapons and semi-automatic handguns.

    LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
    Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? No

    No state requirement that handgun buyers obtain a handgun license or undergo any type of safety training prior to buying a handgun.

    LIMIT BULK PURCHASES
    Is there a one-handgun-per-month limit on sales? Yes

    State law restricts gun-trafficking by limiting the number of handguns that can be purchased at one time. No more than one handgun may be purchased by a person within a 30--day period. Unfortunately this law has been severely weakened over the years by exempting CCW permit holders and private sellers from the one-handgun-per-month regulation. The restriction on bulk-buying of handguns helps prevent gun traffickers from buying handguns at gun stores and reselling them on the street to criminals.

    LIMITS ON CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS
    May police limit carrying concealed handguns? No

    State law forces police chiefs and state sheriffs to give concealed carry permits (CCW) to anyone who can buy a handgun, allowing them to carry loaded, concealed handguns in public (known as �shall issue�). Police may not even require safety training in the legal or safe use of weapons for CCW applicants. State law allows residents of some other states to carry concealed weapons in this state without informing local police.

    MICROSTAMPING
    Must new semi-automatic handguns be sold with microstamping technology? No

    Virginia - There is no state law requiring new semi-automatic handguns be fitted with microstamping technology, which would engrave on each fired bullet casing microscopic identifying markings that are specific to that firearm alone. This technology would provide law enforcement with another investigative tool to better solve gun crimes and apprehend armed criminals.

    PREEMPTION - LOCAL GUN LAWS
    May municipalities enact law stronger than the state's? No

    State law forbids local city or county governments from enacting any local gun laws, even though the state has failed to pass responsible state-wide laws. This preemption of local government authority makes it impossible for cities to enact sensible gun laws to make their citizens safer. Local laws enacted prior to 1987 were allowed to remain in force.

    RECORD KEEPING
    May police maintain gun sale records? Partial

    Virginia: State law authorizes law enforcement to keep a record for up to 12 months, of every handgun sold in the state by licensed gun dealers in order to enforce the state's restriction on bulk buying of handguns (one-handgun-per-month law). But the state does not keep any records on the sale of rifles or shotguns or on the "private" sale of handguns by individuals. In addition, the governing body of any county may require sellers of handguns to submit detailed sales records to the county clerk. The handgun sale records are maintained by police for use in gun tracing and related criminal investigations and to verify compliance with the state's one handgun per month law. But the state does not automatically compare past gun sale records with recent criminal activity to identify and disarm felons and others who bought guns legally, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

    REGISTRATION
    Are all guns registered with law enforcement? No

    No state requirement that gun owners register their firearms. Police do not know how many guns are in the state or where they are. The lack of registration data makes it more difficult for police to trace guns used in crime, identify illegal gun traffickers or hold gun owners accountable for their weapons. There is no state system to automatically identify and disarm felons and other prohibited people who bought guns legally in the past, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

    REPORT LOST/STOLEN GUNS
    Are firearm owners required to report all lost or stolen guns to law enforcement? No

    Virginia - State law does not require firearm owners to report lost or stolen firearms to law enforcement. This requirement would help to keep illegal guns off the streets by removing the excuse used by gun traffickers that "lose" their firearms.

    SAFETY STANDARDS
    Are there consumer safety standards on guns? No

    No state requirement that handguns meet any basic safety standards. No requirement that guns be sold with a child-safety lock or a built-in �personalized� lock to prevent unauthorized use. No requirement that handguns have loaded-chamber indicators or magazine safety disconnects that could prevent unintentional shootings. The state Attorney General is not allowed to independently establish handgun safety standards.

    SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS
    Are there limitations on 'junk' handguns? No

    No state restriction on the sale of Saturday night specials or "junk" handguns. No requirement that handguns meet any safety tests such as a drop-safety test or a firing-performance test. No restriction on the sale of snub-nosed handguns that are very small and easy to conceal.

    SHOOT FIRST
    Is deadly force allowed to be a first resort in public? No

    Virginia - The state does not allow the use of deadly force as a first resort in public.

    UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
    Are background checks required on all gun sales? No

    Virginia - No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on all firearm sales. People buying firearms at gun shows, swap meets, or through newspaper or internet advertisements are not subject to a background check. Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store - all other sales are not subject to the background check.

    WAITING PERIOD
    Is there a waiting period on gun sales? No

    No state requirement that there be a waiting period for gun sales beyond the "instant check" in federal law. Police are not given any additional time to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. There is no "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The gun law summaries provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence should not be regarded as explanation of state law. While we try to keep this information accurate and updated, this material is provided for general discussion and reference purposes only.
    As you can see some of the things we focus on are not on their list -- e.g., must issue; where you can carry (other than colleges and work); or training/proficiency to get a CHP; suppressors; transport rules; degree of reciprocity; notification (LEO and private property), etc.

    So, their ranking might not have a direct negative correlation to one we might create.
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  15. #15
    Member Array dlclarkii's Avatar
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    Pa is mediocre, two things I wish we had was the right to transport a gun w/o a LTCF and a Castle Doctrine. We can only transport a gun to a range and can not stop in between. We also don't have a true Castle Doctrine. Other than that, anyone can carry OC in public w/o a permit, it's just a matter of getting there since you can't get there w/o a permit to transport your gun so you'd have to walk from your home OCing to OC in public w/o a permit.

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