MO State Senator and Concealed Carry on Campus
This is a discussion on MO State Senator and Concealed Carry on Campus within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I sent this letter to state senator Joan Bray (D-STL) when the Missouri legislature was considering CCW on campus:
"Dear Senator Bray,
I strongly urge ...
August 29th, 2009 08:57 AM
MO State Senator and Concealed Carry on Campus
I sent this letter to state senator Joan Bray (D-STL) when the Missouri legislature was considering CCW on campus:
"Dear Senator Bray,
I strongly urge you to support HB668 AS-IS in order to enact legally carrying concealed firearms on university campuses.
Unfortunately our colleges and universities have experienced a number of mass shooting incidents in the last ten years Ė all committed in locations where firearms are prohibited.
Facts clearly demonstrate the police can not protect you if you are randomly targeted by a deranged individual who intends to commit mass murder within a short period of time.
N.B. The police canít protect you. The city canít protect you. The county canít protect you. Your friends canít protect you. Your family canít protect you. Only you have a chance to protect yourself - and the outcome is not guaranteed.
To maximize your chance for survival, the correct response to a direct attack which threatens life or serious bodily harm is to commit instant, overwhelming violence on the perpetrator at the first practicable moment. The one tactical advantage you have as a potential victim is that the attacker does not expect resistance. In this regard, any tool available to stop the attack should be employed. Whether it be a pistol, rifle, hammer, chair or whatever.
The objective is to survive. And there are no rules.
I will assume that if you do not support this legislation as-is you prefer our students to attend school in an environment where criminals can freely prey on victims without fear of retaliation. Please help make our campuses safer by supporting concealed carry on campus."
Here's the reply I just received:
Thank you for your letter regarding the extension of the Missouri Castle Doctrine. As an elected official, I represent constituents from my district as well as my own predisposition on the issue. Personally I have long been an advocate for improving gun safety. During my service in the Senate I have also found that the majority of my constituents share my views. As so, my responsibility as their - and your - elected official is to represent my constituents as responsibly as possible Ė taking into consideration my conscience, feedback from my constituents, research, facts, experience in other states, etc.
Therefore, I oppose legislation that would make acquiring and owning concealed weapons easier, as House Bill 668 would have done. Not only would it have lowered the minimum age for getting a permit from 23 years old to 21, but this bill would also have allowed a person with a license to conceal and carry on college campuses. Hundreds of studies within the past few decades, including many recent studies (Dixon, S.K. and S.E. Robinson Kurpius. 2008. Depression and College Stress Among University Undergraduates.; Kerr, S., et al. 2004. Predicting Adjustment During the Transition to College: Alexithymia, Perceived Stress, and Psychological Symptoms.; Gowland, A. 2006. The Problem of Early Modern Melancholy.) have found that not only are college-aged young adults more likely to suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts, but those actually in college are more likely to act on these feelings, as a combined result of academic-related stress and a drug-and-alcohol-filled environment. I feel that weapons being readily available in an often reckless environment is a dangerous gamble on the part of the state -- one that I am not willing to make.
I appreciate being apprised of your support of the bill. I value the opinions of all of my constituents, and your point is understood. Please feel free to contact me in the future with any further comments or questions you might have on this or other issues.
Senator Joan Bray
Missouri Capitol, Room 431
Jefferson City, MO 65101
What can you say about this kind of thinking?!??!!? The first thing that pops into my mind is that she was one of the actresses in the movie called "Clueless."
August 29th, 2009 11:31 AM
I have to say, while it's not the response you'd like to see at least the answer had more thought and substance than the usual canned "No, because guns kill people", we usually get from our "Brady Brainwashed" politicians!
(At least she didn't cite that perverse TV broadcast with the deeply flawed experiment.)
EOD - Initial success or total failure
August 29th, 2009 11:34 AM
Well that's disappointing.
August 29th, 2009 11:37 AM
I hate to have to agree, but I do. It was somewhat refreshing to see a response that has thought and reasoning behind it. While I don't care for her view, I can respect that.
Originally Posted by rstickle
August 29th, 2009 12:16 PM
While I strongly disagree with her postion, I am always impressed with individuals who WILL give you a a direct (yes or no) answer with thier reasons behind it.
I hate fence sitters...or artists!
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
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NRA Life Member[/B]
August 29th, 2009 12:21 PM
If a senator is a democrat representing KC or St. Louis, it's almost guaranteed that all hope is lost.
There may be an exception here and there, but there won't be many.
Good for you for contacting her, but don't hold your breath waiting for her to change.
August 29th, 2009 12:29 PM
Wow... I have to agree with the others. You received more than your usual form letter response. Very clear and directed at your issue.
The one thing you could do, is research the "studies" she cited in her response to see if any of those studies have been refuted and dispelled. If so, you can follow up with your findings as well as some pro-campus carry studies which have not been refuted in hopes of carrying on the dialogue.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
August 29th, 2009 12:35 PM
+1 & He did not side step it
Originally Posted by retsupt99
A Native Floridian = RARE
IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
August 29th, 2009 02:11 PM
I believe "he" is a she.
Originally Posted by hogdaddy
I happen to agree with her, to a degree.
Many college age youths are not responsible enough to carry a weapon, IMO. However many so called "adults" are really just children in overgrown bodies. It is a conundrum, and one that has no easy answer.
I understand her reasoning. I don't know if I agree with her or not. On the surface I would like to see people be able to carry on a college campus, or anywhere else for that matter. I do recognize that unlimited carry is but a dream and that certain "restrictions" will be, and have already been put in place.
One thing that gives me pause is the age requirement for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. If 23 is the age, then that should be the age of majority for everything in that state, IMHO. That includes voting, drinking, unlimited driving privleges, etc.
I have a lot of respect for her, based upon the answer she gave you. She didn't talk around the issue and say nothing. She took the time to reply directly to you. That earns her a lot of respect in my book. Keep that in mind when it's time to vote. She may not be 100% in step with you and your beliefs, but she appears to be honest and forthright, and that is very important to me.
I can disagree with someone, but still respect them. I can also agree with someone and not respect them. Just remember, "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't." If you know her then you can manipulate and strategize to get her to vote how you want her to. That's called politics.
FWIW: I hate "politics".
August 29th, 2009 02:59 PM
Many 18 year olds are not responsible enough to vote, but they get to anyway.
Is the power to vote any less dangerous than the power to carry a gun?
Many 21 year olds are not responsible enough to drink alcohol, but they get to anyway.
Which has a higher body count: The misuse of guns...or the misuse of alcohol?
We have "irresponsible, emotionally unstable kids" under the age of 20 carrying machine guns and mortar tubes and assault rifles (REAL assault rifles) and driving tanks in war zones. As National Guardsmen, they run around cocked and locked in domestic disaster areas.
I don't buy the argument that military training somehow instills a sense of responsibility or maturity. Anyone who's served will tell you that among the fine men and women who serve this country there are dumbasses and dirtbags who continue to slip through the cracks.
As for college kids being more susceptible to suicide, this angle is often used by people who have zero education or training in the subject. Newsflash for our elected morons: Guns don't cause suicide. Neither do razor blades, belts, car exhaust, ropes, tall buildings, sleeping pills, bridges, plastic bags, train tracks, or highways. The concept is asinine. People kill themselves for reasons unrelated to the method they choose.
I'm particularly disgusted (but not surprised) by the arrogance of her opening remark:
"As an elected official, I represent constituents from my district as well as my own predisposition on the issue."
Fail. For those of you who don't know, the word "predispose" means having your mind made up beforehand. As in, before conducting any research, dialogue, or investigation of a subject. That's the "pre" part of "predispose." It is your initial reaction before acquiring any sort of education. Sorry, Senator, you were elected to represent your constituents, not to satisfy your own knee-jerk urges.
"The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
August 29th, 2009 03:02 PM
Interesting response. The fact that she states that her personal beliefs are the basis for her decisionmaking is sorta mindblowing.
Yes, she covers that by saying that the majority of her constituents agree with her position. However, if I were a resident of her district, I would like to know real numbers and what info she has to back up this statement.
Failing to produce that info would incline one to believe that it doesn't exist. Which could be used as a media weapon at the next election.
August 29th, 2009 03:09 PM
You are correct. The dems from K.C. and St. Louis are very anti-gun. The dems that represent rural districts are more conservative.
Originally Posted by grady
If you remember, the state congress had to over-ride the democratic governor's veto so we could have the right to carry a concealed weapon.
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. ó Winston Churchill
August 29th, 2009 06:49 PM
So....what about those students who are going back to school--those who have served in the military or raised a family or working on an advanced degree, but still have to work? Why can't they carry?----questions to pose back to your rep.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
August 29th, 2009 07:35 PM
More responsive than the usual. Wrong, but responsive. I am very interested in the studies she cited and what they really found. I am even more interested in who provides those kinds of references to our elected representatives.
August 30th, 2009 01:44 AM
1. Maybe laws could be changed to allow college students in Masters programs to be armed. They should be less prone to suicide and drunkenness. If all goes well, push the limit in the future.
Originally Posted by BikerRN
2. With most states having 21 as the legal age to get a permit, and 18 to possess, the 232 argument doesn't hold water.
Like it or not, we vote for people based on their "personal" promises when they run. They are not required to use any other system of determining how they will vote.
Originally Posted by Rob P.
Our government of a representational democracy (republic), then, is an inherently flawed system, yet the best to protect freedom.
We would, and do, champion pro-2A legislators who might use pro-2A literature as a prop for their pro-2A personal beliefs. We believe they see the light while anti-2A legislators live in darkness.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
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Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
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