NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights - Page 5

NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights

This is a discussion on NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Faitmaker Because nobody has every been falsely accused or unable to prove their innocence . Tough crowd. How many stories about people ...

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Thread: NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    Because nobody has every been falsely accused or unable to prove their innocence. Tough crowd. How many stories about people let go after years of jail time served only to be found they were innocent? How many go unproven? The trouble with absolutes is they will absolutely get you into trouble.
    When I was very young, I asked my father many questions about the way the world works. I once asked him about the justice system, and how it didn't seem fair to me that a person could conceivably be convicted of a crime he didn't commit. His explanation was simple. Not only are we required to follow the law, we also must take steps to ensure that we are not found guilty of a crime we did not commit.

    If we expect the system to work flawlessly, then we must take personal responsibility for what the system lacks. An example might be calling the police immediately after an attempted mugging. You might be innocent of any crime, but what matters is that you are the one who initiates a police report first. Another example might be installing surveillance cameras in your home in order to have video evidence of what does or does not occur there.

    It sounds like you're expecting the results to be perfect without expecting the people to bear any responsibility for the outcome. I don't believe that absolutes get you into trouble. To the contrary, they act as a known quantity in the algebraic equations of life and enable us to solve for x. If we expect an absolutely perfect outcome from an imperfect system, then the difference must come from the people.


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    When I was very young, I asked my father many questions about the way the world works. I once asked him about the justice system, and how it didn't seem fair to me that a person could conceivably be convicted of a crime he didn't commit. His explanation was simple. Not only are we required to follow the law, we also must take steps to ensure that we are not found guilty of a crime we did not commit.

    If we expect the system to work flawlessly, then we must take personal responsibility for what the system lacks. An example might be calling the police immediately after an attempted mugging. You might be innocent of any crime, but what matters is that you are the one who initiates a police report first. Another example might be installing surveillance cameras in your home in order to have video evidence of what does or does not occur there.

    It sounds like you're expecting the results to be perfect without expecting the people to bear any responsibility for the outcome. I don't believe that absolutes get you into trouble. To the contrary, they act as a known quantity in the algebraic equations of life and enable us to solve for x. If we expect an absolutely perfect outcome from an imperfect system, then the difference must come from the people.
    Nicely written. Thanks for the insight.

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Felonies are different in every state. If I buy a 20 year old a beer here in Texas, I can get a fine. If I buy a 20 year old a beer in New Mexico, it's a felony. It doesn't make sense that doing something in one state hurts your pocket a little and the same thing one state over makes is a federal crime for you to possess a firearm. Not only does it not make sense, it isn't constitutional.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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  4. #64
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Until they fix the fouled up system of felons that don't belong being felons, they should be allowed to get their rights restored immediately upon release unless their crime was a violent felony(ie murder, rape, etc...).

    Problem is, in some states, something as simple as a $100 bad check that could have been a perfectly honest mistake is convictable as a felony. Quite frankly, I don't see how it does us any good to destroy those folks lives for life.

    Who defines felony? What if tomorrow, your home state declared all firearms owners felons? Would you be all for getting your rights back?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  5. #65
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    I'm not going to lead the charge to restore firearm ownership rights to felons. I'll be indifferent if in my state, non-violent felons have this right restored after a period.

    However, there are certain felons (child molesters, rapists, murders) who if they were to be regain this right, would have me voting against politicians and judges. It would motivate me enought to actively campaign for their opponents. Forget do the time for the crime. We are living in the real world. Just because they get out does not mean they can be trusted the same as every other citizen. A stock broker who scams their clients should never be allowed to be legal licenced to buy / sell stocks again and I believe a murder should never own a firearm legally.

    My $.02.
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  6. #66
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post

    "We" don't speak with one voice, since "we" aren't here. The folks supporting that view did so. The other individuals who didn't express a view cannot be assumed to have a certain opinion merely by being here.
    The "We" in that statement is the country as a whole. We the people.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  7. #67
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Without even reading this I am going to throw in my opinion, what used to be a felony (serious violent crime) and what is a felony today is where the problem lies. There are TOO MANY FELONIES!!!!!!!!
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


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  8. #68
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    I think that a felon who has committed a violent felony such as murder ,rape or any violent crime using a weapon should never get his rights back.

  9. #69
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free American View Post
    Without even reading this I am going to throw in my opinion, what used to be a felony (serious violent crime) and what is a felony today is where the problem lies. There are TOO MANY FELONIES!!!!!!!!
    Just curious, but exactly which felonies do you think should be misdemeanors (or legal?) Why do you want to excuse or mitigate illegal behavior of any sort?

    Personally, I think the distinction is meaningless. I think all crimes should be felonies. The only reason we have classes of misdemeanors and felonies is to sort out equivalencies of punishment.

    Just as I wrote that no one accidentally commits a felony, guess what? No one accidentally commits a misdemeanor, either.

  10. #70
    Member Array chucktait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Just curious, but exactly which felonies do you think should be misdemeanors (or legal?) Why do you want to excuse or mitigate illegal behavior of any sort?

    Personally, I think the distinction is meaningless. I think all crimes should be felonies. The only reason we have classes of misdemeanors and felonies is to sort out equivalencies of punishment.

    Just as I wrote that no one accidentally commits a felony, guess what? No one accidentally commits a misdemeanor, either.
    I have a question. Have you ever been cited for speeding? In State of Nevada, this is a misdemeanor. Do you think everyone who's ever been cited for speeding should loose their rights as well? How about jaywalking. Another misdemeanor in Nevada.
    Darrow75 likes this.

  11. #71
    Member Array J Bowen's Avatar
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    Most people are not lawyers. I am not saying
    ignorance of the law is an excuse but it is very
    easy to accidently break laws this link will probably
    show that everyone has commited a crime.
    guess we all could of had our rights taken away if
    caught doing some of these dumb laws.
    Dumb Laws, Stupid Laws: We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws!
    some of the posted laws are not true however some are or use to be

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    I noticed a number of people give no allowance to the felonies that were non-violent, white collar crimes.
    Mistakes happen but people here apparently don't believe they can. Someone here said "nobody accidentally commits a felony".
    Aside from those guilty of felonies of really violent law, we give no lee-way to those felons who brought back a bony fish from Honduras which is only illegal in Honduras ... Wow. Tough crowd.
    You all of course must make decisions that fit your conscience.
    You know who you are.
    The "We" in that statement is the country as a whole. We the people.
    Hm. I would think that since the body of a People as a whole don't have decisions as individuals nor respond individually to questions posed, as in a post. The way "you, "we" (with "tough crowd") and "people here" was used in most all paragraphs in the relevant post ... My apologies if misinterpreted.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    So basically the ads "You do the crime, you do the time" are false advertising
    Nope. Not when the loss of rights is part of the "time". Where is the "false advertising?" It's no surprise to any felon that he/she loses certain rights as a result of his or her crime. The courts don't spring the loss of certain rights as an "Oh by the way, you can't vote, own a firearm etc" on the felon.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    Nope. Not when the loss of rights is part of the "time". Where is the "false advertising?" It's no surprise to any felon that he/she loses certain rights as a result of his or her crime. The courts don't spring the loss of certain rights as an "Oh by the way, you can't vote, own a firearm etc" on the felon.
    FWIIW -- here in Virginia the same elective representatives who champion the laws to restore voting rights to felons, tend to be the ones that are the most anti-RKBA.

    Wonder what's going on?
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  15. #75
    Member Array nasal's Avatar
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    I feel hypocritical saying on one hand that gun control laws only impact law-abiding citizens but then pretending that stripping felons of their rights will impact their behavior. Career criminals aren't going to care whether they can legally possess a firearm.

    Personally, I feel that it is against the ideals that this country was founded on to strip "inalienable" rights from felons, especially considering the lack of uniformity of what makes you a afelon amongst states. In fact, the concept that you can petition to have your rights restored is sickening in this context. Sure, in theory everyone will get a fair chance, but we all know that in reality, money talks. Your average former convict cannot afford an attorney to petition for his rights back. In fact, if he could afford to do so, there is a good chance that he wouldn't be a felon in the first place, since a good lawyer can get you a deal, especially for drug-related crimes. Also, what about felons who cooperate with the police in return for a leniency? A bank robber who turns on his accomplices is no less a criminal, but he may retain his rights.

    Finally, it isn't only Second Amendment rights being impacted. Hmmm, Elliot Spitzer can hire a hooker, remain in office with no criminal repercussions whatsoever, and (as of this morning) consider running again, but if I hire a hooker, I can't vote him out of office. Makes no sense to me. Of course, if I were in Nevada I would be completely okay.

    Upon release, felons should be stripped of their rights for a period equal to a percentage of their sentence, say 30%-50%, similar to parole. If, during this time out of jail, they can be productive members of society, they should get ALL their rights back. If not, well, that means they've committed another crime, so back to jail it is.

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