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NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights

This is a discussion on NC Supreme Court restores felon's gun rights within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; if the man does the time he served gets out he should have to petition to get his rights back. self defense that comment shocks ...

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  1. #76
    Member Array russ1986's Avatar
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    if the man does the time he served gets out he should have to petition to get his rights back. self defense that comment shocks me you said. look at your avatar it is what?? then you want to go off and say the opposite of what you are trying to make your self out to be? Are bill of rights is for all men. Now i am not saying we should just give them back but if they do the time and the petition for them back they should be granted
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  2. #77
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasal View Post
    Personally, I feel that it is against the ideals that this country was founded on to strip "inalienable" rights from felons, especially considering the lack of uniformity of what makes you a afelon amongst states.
    Yes.

    Inalienable ... which applies to everyone who isn't on the State's bad side, this week, which includes anyone with whom the State disagrees, whom the State fingers as criminal, dislikes, mistrusts or otherwise wants to show who's boss.

    If a given criminal is so dangerous, the criminal should be eliminated. In the area of inalienable rights, I believe it's unconstitutional to deprive the rights. They are rights, after all, inalienable by contract with ourselves no less. But beyond that, these half measures aren't worthy of us, as a nation. They hurt everyone, by degrees, and they help so very little. In this regard, I believe we need a bit more backbone.
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  3. #78
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    Talking Restoration of felons' civic rights

    Guess who is championing the restoration of felons' civic rights -- meaning voter eligibility -- the blatantly anti-RKBA Roanoke Times, Roanoke Va.

    BTW -- this was on the front page, as disguised news, not on the opinion page.

    Hum! Maybe I write a letter to the editor asking about all civil rights.

    Virginia lags in restoration of felons' civic rights - Roanoke.com

    Virginia lags in restoration of felons' civic rights
    A 2008 study found that 19 states have reformed their disenfranchisement laws in an effort to expand voter eligibility.
    By Laurence Hammack
    981-3239
    More than 3,500 people with felony convictions in their pasts, but hopes for civic involvement in their futures, have had their voting rights restored by Gov. Tim Kaine.

    As of Sept. 1, Kaine had restored the rights of 3,598 convicted felons -- more than any other Virginia governor since at least 1938.

    The governor's philosophy is to reward convicted felons who have led crime-free lives since completing their prison terms or probation, Kaine spokesman Gordon Hickey said.

    "They've paid their debt, they've served their sentence, they've been clear of any problems with the law ... and they should be allowed to have their rights restored," Hickey said.

    Yet critics say Virginia remains one of the most restrictive states in the nation when it comes to giving back basic rights that are forfeited with a felony conviction.

    Virginia and Kentucky are the only two states that bar felons for life from voting, serving on a jury, running for public office or being a notary public, absent intervention from the governor, according to the Sentencing Project, a nonprofit organization that promotes criminal justice reform.

    At least 300,000 felons are currently disenfranchised in Virginia, even though many have completed their sentences.

    "The most fundamental expression of democracy -- the right to vote -- is marred in our state's constitution by legalized, permanent disenfranchisement," said Paige Hodges, a grant writer for Total Action Against Poverty who is helping organize a rally Sunday in Roanoke to draw attention to the issue.

    "Ex-offenders are expected to re-integrate, pay taxes and become law-abiding citizens, but are prevented from helping to create the laws they must obey," Hodges said.

    Sanctions linger

    Convicted felons in Virginia who want their rights back must petition the governor in what can be a lengthy process. Once they are out of prison and off probation, there's a waiting period of three years for nonviolent offenders and five years for violent offenders and drug dealers.

    Although the governor has the power to restore most civil rights, felons still are prohibited from owning a gun. Once someone has his other rights restored by the governor, he can ask a circuit court judge for permission to have a gun.

    Restoring the rights of felons is left to the sole discretion of the governor, and the number of such actions has varied widely from administration to administration.

    With three months remaining in office, Kaine recently surpassed former Gov. Mark Warner's total of 3,486, which had been the most since 1938, the first year for which records were available.

    After he was elected in 2001, Warner streamlined the process for nonviolent felons, shortening the application from 13 pages to one. The change fulfilled a campaign promise from Warner to make it easier for people with a criminal past to have a productive future.

    Since then, Warner and Kaine have granted more restoration-of-rights petitions than the previous 11 administrations combined.

    While advocates for the disenfranchised are encouraged by the relatively high number of restorations by Warner and Kaine, they argue that the system remains too cumbersome.

    It takes at least six months to conduct criminal background checks and complete the paperwork for each case. That means if everyone who is eligible were to apply, it would take more than 200 years to process all the applications, according to a study by the Advancement Project, a policy and legal action group committed to racial justice.

    Paid in full

    Unlike Virginia, most states automatically restore the rights of convicted felons after they have pulled their time, completed their probation and paid their court fines.

    A study last year by the Sentencing Project found that 19 states have reformed their disenfranchisement laws since 1997 in an effort to expand voter eligibility.

    Still, an estimated 5 million people were not allowed to vote in last year's presidential election because of a felony conviction, the study found.

    Depriving convicted felons of their right to vote affects blacks disproportionately, according to critics who trace the origin of the system back to the days of Jim Crow.

    When disenfranchisement laws were made a part of the state's constitution in 1902, a least one delegate to the convention made it clear what the true intent was, according to a report from the Advancement Project.

    "This plan will eliminate the darkey as a political factor in this state in less than five years, so that in no single county ... will there be the least concern felt for the complete supremacy of the white race in the affairs of government," the report quoted Del. Carter Glass as saying at the time.

    About half of the convicted felons barred from voting in Virginia are black, according to the report, even though blacks constitute less than 20 percent of the state's voting-age population.

    "It's a Jim Crow-era law that has no business being in our constitution," said Hodges, who is working to organize the "Voices for the Vote" rally in Elmwood Park.

    The event will push to change Virginia's system and spread the word to convicted felons who may be eligible to have their rights restored.

    Many convicted felons don't even know the process exists, said Sharon LaMar, head of the Roanoke chapter of the Virginia Organizing Project, another group sponsoring the rally.

    Political complications

    Restoring felons' voting rights makes them more involved in their communities, and that in turn reduces the chances of recidivism, advocates say.

    Yet not everyone supports the national trend of making it easier for ex-inmates to vote.

    "There are places in this country, and maybe in parts of Virginia, where there are an awful lot of felons who could potentially make up five percent of the voters in a county and influence the outcome of an election," said Michael Rushford, president of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, a tough-on-crime organization based in California.

    "I wouldn't want sex offenders to have a voting bloc, to be able to choose someone for public office who's sympathetic to their cause," Rushford said.

    The process of restoring rights to felons can sometimes become a political issue, as it did during last year's presidential election. Republican John McCain's campaign accused Kaine of making a coordinated effort of adding felons to the state's voter rolls so they could vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

    Kaine's campaign dismissed claims that it was participating in a "conspiracy" with Obama.

    For some, the most troubling aspect of the controversy was the notion that a vote from anyone with a felony in their past somehow corrupted the democratic process.

    "That's insane," LaMar said. Once someone has completed their sentence and become a productive member of society, she said, "you should have the right to have your voice heard."
    Last edited by DaveH; September 7th, 2009 at 03:13 PM.
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  4. #79
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    Sent the letter.

    Will let you know, if it sees print.

    To: <letters@roanoke.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:27 PM
    Subject: Civic Rights -- all of them?


    Re: Virginia lags in restoration of felons' civic rights
    A 2008 study found that 19 states have reformed their disenfranchisement laws

    Does your position on felons on having their rights restored include their right to keep and bear arms?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  5. #80
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    In Utah, you can apply to have a felony or domestic violence conviction expunged after a certain number of years have elapsed without further criminal convictions.

    Once expunged, you can then purchase a gun and even get a CWP.

    The fee is reasonable and no lawyer needed.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    You feel someone who was convicted of of a homicide should get their right to own a gun again when their sentence is served? What about the gangbanger who raped and beat a 90 year old woman? What about Bernie Madoff who stole millions and ruined thousands of peoples retirement?

    Sorry, you do a crime, you face the consequences. If you want your rights back you petition for them to be returned.


    nah i agree with OPer...second amendment states we are allowed to own guns...it's not the right thing to do, btu it is unconstitutional to ban them from owning guns. maybe they can ban them from CCing them, or open carrying them, but not owning them.
    "When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."
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  7. #82
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Hm. I would think that since the body of a People as a whole don't have decisions as individuals nor respond individually to questions posed, as in a post. The way "you, "we" (with "tough crowd") and "people here" was used in most all paragraphs in the relevant post ... My apologies if misinterpreted.
    And I apologize for being unclear in that last post. You were right about all the last statements except the last one. In the last statement about the "We" and the bony fish, I meant as a country or more to "We" that creates and enforces our laws. Previously I was talking about certain individual people with specific individual posts. I apologize if you were offended but I was speaking to the "we" in this thread that had the views that I pointed out. If you didn't have those views, I wasn't speaking to you. I did not mean to lump you in and did not mean to say that all people who post in this thread is the "we". Wheeeee!
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  8. #83
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    I did not mean to lump you in and did not mean to say that all people who post in this thread is the "we". Wheeeee!
    Yeah, it's hard to always get the intended meaning. No harm, no foul.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  9. #84
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    FWIIW -- here in Virginia the same elective representatives who champion the laws to restore voting rights to felons, tend to be the ones that are the most anti-RKBA.

    Wonder what's going on?
    Well, if you have seen any of my posts, I think you know that I am not anti-RKBA. I may disagree with people here on who it applies to but I am not anti-anything constitutional. I am playing devil's advocate here and have on more than one occasion commented that this is an issue I struggle with and argue with myself on. I see the points people have made here and tend to agree that it doesn't make sense to allow some felons access to guns. It actually makes more sense to not have the felons, who shouldn't have access to guns, out as they are dangerous without the guns.

    The more I "argue" with "you" about this is only to get "you" (the "we" I previously spoke of) to solidify your argument in the hopes that I come to peace with the issue. I haven't in years.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    It actually makes more sense to not have the felons, who shouldn't have access to guns, out as they are dangerous without the guns.
    On that we can agree -- completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    The more I "argue" with "you" about this is only to get "you" (the "we" I previously spoke of) to solidify your argument in the hopes that I come to peace with the issue. I haven't in years.
    You lost me in the you's, we's, and I's.

    FWIW -- my post was about politicos, not DC Forum members.

    OTOH, I am at peace w/ the issue.

    IMHO, we need something for felons, who have served their time, crafted along the lines of the provisions we lobbied for and got sign into law for those adjudicated and involuntarily admitted to a facility or ordered to mandatory outpatient treatment as the result of a commitment hearing on mental health grounds. Namely:

    18.2-308.1:3. Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons involuntarily admitted or ordered to outpatient treatment; penalty.

    ....

    B. Any person prohibited from purchasing, possessing or transporting firearms under this section may, at any time following his release from involuntary admission to a facility, his release from an order of mandatory outpatient treatment, or his release from voluntary admission pursuant to 37.2-805 following the issuance of a temporary detention order, petition the general district court in the city or county in which he resides to restore his right to purchase, possess or transport a firearm. If the court determines that the circumstances regarding the disabilities referred to in subsection A and the person's criminal history, treatment record, and reputation are such that the person will not likely act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that granting the relief would not be contrary to the public interest, the court shall grant the petition. Any person denied relief by the general district court may petition the circuit court for a de novo review of the denial. Upon a grant of relief in any court, the court shall enter a written order granting the petition, in which event the provisions of subsection A shall no longer apply. The clerk of court shall certify and forward forthwith to the Central Criminal Records Exchange, on a form provided by the Exchange, a copy of any such order. [emphasis added]
    As it now stands, IMHO, there is to much may in the options of the administrative branch.
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    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  11. #86
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    They print leter

    Congress needs to lend a hand in housing recovery - Roanoke.com



    How about restoring ex-cons' gun rights?

    Re: Virginia lags in restoration of felons' civic rights," Sept. 7 news story:

    Does your position on felons having their rights restored include their right to keep and bear arms?

    DAVE HICKS
    DUBLIN
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #87
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    Just because someone was convicted of a non violent crime dos not mean they haven't committed violent acts. It may just mean they haven't been caught yet.
    pittypat21 likes this.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkdirtyhary View Post
    Just because someone was convicted of a non violent crime dos not mean they haven't committed violent acts. It may just mean they haven't been caught yet.
    But if we follow that logic, just because someone passes a background check (like to get a carry permit) does not mean they haven't committed violent acts. It may just mean they haven't been caught yet. Any one of us may be a serial killer that hasn't been caught yet. Your congress critter may be a child molester that hasn't been caught yet. We can't be basing decisions on what someone may be, only on what can be shown they are.
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  14. #89
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    What?

    I am so tired of people saying that. I have been a registered voter for quite sometime now. Yes, I am a convicted felon. It's been 20 years, going on 21. I vote "legally" every year. If you think I am a bad person, give it a few month and see how the bad people come out. My felonies were nonviolent, I did them and except full responsability. WHEN, I get my pardon back, I will then have my gun rights back. Then I can get BACK on the fire department. It's funny, I can, am able and have saved someones life but I cannot own a gun or put out a fire. WOW!!! I don't think that's what our forefathers had intended our country to end up. All of our soldiers that have paid the price and it all boils down to stupid laws written by stupid people for stupid reasons.
    Last edited by Toobadsosad; September 19th, 2009 at 11:02 PM. Reason: mispelled word

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toobadsosad View Post
    I am so tired of people saying that. I have been a registered voter for quite sometime now. Yes, I am a convicted felon. It's been 20 years, going on 21. I vote "legally" every year. If you think I am a bad person, give it a few month and see how how the bad people come out. My felonies were nonviolent, I did them and except full responsabilty. WHEN, I get my pardon back, I will then have my gun rights back. Then I can get BACK on the fire department. It's funny, I can, am able and have saved someones life but I cannot own a gun or put out a fire. WOW!!! I don't think that's what our forefathers had intended our country to end up. All of our soldiers that have paid the price and it all boils down to stupid laws written by stupid people for stupid reasons.
    I agree. I don't think our forefathers would like to see certain free men denied their right to keep and bear arms, whether it be by state government of federal government.

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