Open Public Meeting, Gun Laws, Trenton, NJ - Page 2

Open Public Meeting, Gun Laws, Trenton, NJ

This is a discussion on Open Public Meeting, Gun Laws, Trenton, NJ within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Good e-mail to the point....

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Thread: Open Public Meeting, Gun Laws, Trenton, NJ

  1. #16
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    Array ccman's Avatar
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    Good e-mail to the point.


  2. #17
    Member Array Glasstream15's Avatar
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    Nothing out of the way in that. It's polite but straight to the point. Excellent writing.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    I wonder if it will will be seen or presented.

  4. #19
    Member Array V65magnafan's Avatar
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    I have a question regarding Corzine's Handgun Taskforce.

    Que bono? Who benefits?

    What is motivating Corzine to implement his Handgun Taskforce? Does he want to avoid an NRA challenge to NJ gun laws? Does he see a benefit in securing for himself the votes of New Jersey gun owners?

    This is important to me because I have relatives living in New Jersey and New York.
    NRA 2AF IDPA
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by V65magnafan View Post
    I have a question regarding Corzine's Handgun Taskforce.

    Que bono? Who benefits?

    What is motivating Corzine to implement his Handgun Taskforce? Does he want to avoid an NRA challenge to NJ gun laws? Does he see a benefit in securing for himself the votes of New Jersey gun owners?



    Crossed my mind, also.

    No one in government conducts an evaluation, investigation, or hearing w/o an agenda.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    How did it go?

  7. #22
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    i couldn't find anything about it through a google search either

  8. #23
    Member Array Jetpilot007's Avatar
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    Comrad Corzine is an idiot.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I am nowhere near New Jersey. What is the purpose of reviewing the gun laws? Is this a publicity stunt for re-election or is Corzine's Task Force actually reviewing the laws for any reason other than to rub them in your face?
    Big +1
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    It's kind of like dangling a carrot infront of a horse. the horse thinks he can reach it, but actually never can.

  11. #26
    Member Array nasal's Avatar
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    I am copying a post, verbatim, from a NJ RKBA website. This group is spearheading the 2A fight in NJ. The post is below.

    We were there, and also presented. Unfortunately our message got "lost in the sauce", but you can see our entered testimony on the main site.

    Other organizations were there seeking exemptions for retailers, wholesalers, distributors, collectors, sport shooters, club members, training instructors, but not a single presenter had our message. That no one group of law-abiding citizens should be entitled to any more or fewer rights than another, and that the only 'exemption' we could recommend was that for any holder of an FID card.

    It was also interesting that the committee didn't seem to grasp the notion that this law had a severe impact on resellers, nor the difference between a retailer, wholesaler and manufacturer; and that these groups of distribution partners would be significantly affected. It seems that message got through, and Evan Nappen was very thorough in his presentation providing a very crisp legal argument and remedy for how to create the provision.

    What the Task Force does with the information is yet to be seen.
    That was written by the NJCSD officer "Hammerhead." I would like to point out a few things to non-NJ residents:

    1. The committee is composed of 7 vocal antis, one pro gunner, and one person who we're not sure about.

    2. 6 of the 7 people on the committee had absolutely no idea what the ONEROUS process to get a Firearms Purchaser ID or a Pistol Purchase Permit was in NJ. In other words they don't realize that this law is TRIPLY redundant. Without going into details for non-residents, it will suffice to say that the process is expensive, invasive, and redundant, and there is commonly no oversight above the local level. Depending on what town you live in, you may have to wait months, or even years, to get a/n FPID/PPP.

    3. PPP expire, so if you don't pick your gun up within the time period, you lose the permit.

    4. We actually defeated this bill several months ago via a phone call/letter writing campaign. This prompted the NJ senate to sneak the bill in late at night, several weeks later, without the required notification of the public. It is the only reason the bill passed (that and a key representative changed his vote).

    Please take a moment to stop by Welcome to the NJCSD see how NJ residents are fighting the uphill battle for our rights. Clicking on our sponsors (or making a donation) would be very helpful to us. Don't forget, when other anti lawmakers see BS like this pass successfully in NY, NY, CA, etc. they may be encouraged to attempt to limit 2A rights in their own states.

  12. #27
    Member Array smity's Avatar
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    There are a couple of other interesting elements of this public meeting.

    One is that, even though there were many that were "invited" to give testimony, the Chairman of the TF, Robert Bernardi, Prosecutor of Burlington County, NJ, narrowed the scope of the meeting with his opening comments by forbidding anyone to criticize the law and to only make recommendations for exemptions. NJCSD was one of only two presenters that focused on the problems of the law, rather than recommendations for exemptions and this, of course, was now out of bounds.

    NJCSD opened by complementing some of the previous presenters on their testimony, which correctly pointed out flaws in the law and recommended certain exemptions to protect particular groups, like retailers, who were not exempt, if you can believe it. They then asked why the legislature had not done this type of research prior to voting. The response was silence. Not a single member of the TF had the guts to admit that it was a mistake or to say that they learned anything.

    NJCSD then made the uncomfortable point that the law was only passed under the promise that there would be exemptions for sportsmen and collectors, but now that it is passed, it would be unethical, and arguably unconstitutional to exempt a group of people just because of their pastime and leave other groups with less rights. The Chairman's response was to refer to the other four states that had passed OGAM. NJCSD had done their homework and pointed out that one of those states had already repealed the law. The Chairman's statement was "well, three still have it right?" Just about the lamest thing I ever heard, especially when you consider that 40 states have right to carry.... duh!

    NJCSD stated that they had asked the Gov for the data used to support OGAM and that their request was denied because the information was "advisory, consultative and deliberative." They asked if the TF would release the data and the request was ignored. The Chairman changed the subject, and never answered the request.

    NJCSD openly criticized the Governor, and this put Bernardi's panties in a bunch. His term is up in about a year, and he is appointed by the Gov, so he defended the Gov like he was his little brother. It turns out that NJCSD really did their homework. As the TF denied that the law was a step toward banning handguns, NJCSD pointed out that the Gov referred to the law as a "ban" in his speech at the signing. The TF's reactions was laughable denial. They told the Chairman to "watch it on youtube." Then NJCSD pointed out that the ATF data, that was supposedly used to support the creation of OGAM, stated that "not all guns traced were used in crimes" and then the cherry on top, the time to crime was 12.53 years on average! Making it impossible for straw purchases (the stated purpose of the law) to be a problem as the Gov stated in his speech.

    The Chairman told them that if they didn't have any recommendations for exemptions that they wouldn't accept any further testimony. NJCSD responded by saying that the FID card required a background check and that anyone who had an FID card should be exempt. They then stated that this, of course, would make the law irrelevant because an FID card is required to purchase any gun in NJ, but that it was clear that that was exactly what should happen to the law.

    It was a true David and Goliath moment, and although NJCSD was eventually silenced, it wasn't until after the TF was exposed for what they really are, a political roadblock and an attempt to compartmentalize gun owners into groups and force them to fight each other for privileges that are already guaranteed to them. It was sad to see so many struggling to recover some of what they had lost, but it was also encouraging to see that there were a couple that weren't going to be intimidated.

    Smity

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    If they have a sign in sheet at the door do not sign it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smity View Post
    Don't forget, carrying in national parks was impossible also... that goes into effect in Feb, 2010.
    Smity
    Well while I don't agree with that law, I do believe long guns should be prohibited from national parks,which would probably be a president where long guns were prohibited and handguns allowed.

    Sorry I just quoted your message because it caught my attention. I know the meeting is over but I registered just to chime in on this matter.

    I live in Jersey, and the Gun Laws SUCK! But everyone should realize that the gun laws in NJ will never get better. They hopefully in the future might ( God willing and I am an Atheist) change the 1 handgun a month rule that goes into effect next year. Regardless of who is in office ( short of the late great Charlton Heston ) we will never have realistic gun laws here. We are the most densely populated state and have high crime in congested urban areas. In NJ BB/pellet guns are considered a Firearm and you must have a Purchase Permit ( 18 to own a BB gun, come on!), Slingshots are Illegal ( To my knowledge, you cant find them anywhere legitimate) , You have can only buy 1 box of ammo and have to sign for it at the very few places that sell ammo in NJ. Firearms must be locked and ammo must separated from the firearm. 15 rounds max for a magazine (We all know the worse thing about being a Gun Enthusiast is reloading). These are all stupid laws that do not stop crime with guns. Making Crime with a Gun should get stricter but they do not understand that its not the legit gun owners committing the crimes and they never will. Plus by making it so hard they can jack up the price for permits and pre - background checks ( which are already done when you purchase the firearm). NJ is all about money and quite frankly getting to expense for me to live here, but when I move I will be able to fire my guns on my property and be able to build a deck without the need for a building permit .
    But regardless of Republican or Democrat in the Governors Office , NJ's gun laws will always SUCK!

    To the person that was complaining about not being able to get a PA CCW because they needed to have ( the near impossible NJ CCW). Just go the the Florida Agriculture and Consumer Services web site and search for CCW or carry permit. Download the forms, fill them out , get fingerprinted ( a pain in NJ unless you friendly with your local police, I even had to go out of municipality because my local police wanted state police to do it, crazy!) , get a passport photo , pay the $117 processing fee and wait for your permit. It is good in PA ,FL, VIRGINIA, ( well like 20 some states but not NJ!!!!) . So after you get your permit ,when you go to PA as soon as you cross the border take your pistol from the trunk , take your ammo from glove box and strap it on, It's your Legal Right!, It probably was your legal right before just not a recognized right.

    My 2 cents on this matter

  15. #30
    Ex Member Array BuckeyeEric's Avatar
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    NJ is on the coat tails of Kalifornia. I lived in both places. Trust me...in a few years you will have to register and get printed to buy ammo there too. It will never get better..only worse. Your best bet is to just leave if you can and let them all have themselves.

    My Mother, Sister, and Brother still live there but I never go and visit....they all come here to Ohio.

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