Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches

Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches

This is a discussion on Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From FoxNews.com: Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches

    From FoxNews.com: Pistol-Packing Pastor Quits to Work for Gun Rights, Protecting Churches - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

    A pistol-packing pastor who drew national attention earlier this year for hosting a "God-and-Guns" event at his church is stepping down from the pulpit to serve his flock with a new mission.

    Pastor Ken Pagano ended his 30-year career last month when he resigned from the New Bethel Church in Louisville, Ky., saying that he wants to focus on church security and Second Amendment rights — a crusade he insists is better fought outside the ministry.

    "Thirty years was a good, long run, but it's time for a change," Pagano told the Washington Times. "If I can write my own ticket, I want to get involved more in Second Amendment issues as they affect the church, and I can do more from outside the pulpit than from behind it," Pagano told the paper.

    About 200 people attended Pagano's "Open Carry Celebration" at the New Bethel Church in June. The event commemorated the roles of religion and gun ownership in American history, and included a handgun raffle. Attendees were also provided with firearms-safety information.

    While Pagano says the event drew mostly positive responses, it made him realize that he might have another calling — keeping worshippers safe.

    Pagano has since teamed up with New York Rabbi Gary Moskowitz, who has worked to protect synagogues from terrorist attacks, to form the International Security Coalition of Clergy, an organization dedicated to "making the vulnerable less vulnerable," according to their mission statement.

    The group promotes the use of armed and trained security at houses of worship. Kentucky law allows residents to carry guns openly in public, with restrictions.

    "Churches are very soft targets and very vulnerable to attack from terrorists and other homegrown, disgruntled individuals," Pagano told The Washington Times. "Unfortunately, most religious leaders are living in denial," he told the paper.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    "Churches are very soft targets and very vulnerable to attack from terrorists and other homegrown, disgruntled individuals," Pagano told The Washington Times. "Unfortunately, most religious leaders are living in denial," he told the paper.
    Exaclty!
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    A few organized attacks on the same Sunday and the church world will began to set up a pay attention. Churches are very soft targets because we believe in love and mercy, and rightly so.

    Problem is pastor do not preach about Biblical self defense, so congregations are unaware that they have a God given right to defend themselves.

    In America we have had the blessings and protection of God over the churches for so long we thank it can not happen here as it has in other countries. It is time that the church in America woke up and realized; just as we have the responsibility to carry the gospel to the world we also have the duty to self defense.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array chrise2004's Avatar
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    I think all pastors should have to hear this man speak.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    we've got about dozen LEO in my church with other ccw holders. There is no paranoia but we're prepared.
    Last edited by 2edgesword; October 13th, 2009 at 09:59 AM.
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  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    A pastor is called by Christ to be an undershepherd over the flock, to feed them by preaching and teaching the Word, preaching the gospel, and to prepare them for the work of the ministry.

    I would have serious doubts about a pastor who stopped doing what he is called to do, and instead to concentrate on security and guns.

    If my pastor got hung up in the 2A cause and spent time doing that instead of studying the Word, preaching and pastoring I would find another church.

    Proper study requires many hours per week. I recall one well known pastor who, when was interviewed, was asked what he would do other than Sunday. He replied that he needed at least 20 hours/week to study and prepare.
    I suspect that few pastors study that much, and as a result their preaching and teaching suffer, and the flock remains ignorant about much of the Bible and it's major doctrines.
    As far as I am concerned a pastor does not have time for defense of the 2A that takes his study, preparation, and visiting time.

    There is nothing wrong with a church having a security plan, but that should not fall to or require much time by the pastor. He needs to be aware of the plan, but others should make it and execute it with the pastor's knowledge and approval.

    We don't need more like the referenced pastor, but more who labor in and teach the Bible in depth.
    More will be hurt by shallow preaching than will be hurt by violent attacks in the church.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you might be judging his choices based on what ???

    How do we know that God's place for this gentleman is not to protect the 2A when God may have a political use for this person to help keep to many sheep from being sheep if you know what I mean.

    Good I hoped that you would leave. I wouldn't leave the church i'd offer to help him out.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    A pastor is called by Christ to be an undershepherd over the flock, to feed them by preaching and teaching the Word, preaching the gospel, and to prepare them for the work of the ministry.

    I would have serious doubts about a pastor who stopped doing what he is called to do, and instead to concentrate on security and guns.

    If my pastor got hung up in the 2A cause and spent time doing that instead of studying the Word, preaching and pastoring I would find another church.

    Proper study requires many hours per week. I recall one well known pastor who, when was interviewed, was asked what he would do other than Sunday. He replied that he needed at least 20 hours/week to study and prepare.
    I suspect that few pastors study that much, and as a result their preaching and teaching suffer, and the flock remains ignorant about much of the Bible and it's major doctrines.

    We don't need more like the referenced pastor, but more who labor in and teach the Bible in depth.
    More will be hurt by shallow preaching than will be hurt by violent attacks in the church.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Jerry,

    There are all kinds of ministries. While I don't see myself leaving to go advocate for 2A, it may be that God has called him to this. I don't know.

    I know pastors who have counseling ministries and street ministries and music ministries and on and on. The above-referenced pastor's choices don't make sense to me, but I can't sit in judgment over him.

    OTOH, I agree with your comments about the importance of sound, well-researched biblical teaching/preaching. It is the biggest issue facing the church today. How else could Oprah have such a following?
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  9. #9
    Member Array njeske's Avatar
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    on any given sunday we've got at least 4 guns in our church. no paranoia, just being prepared.

  10. #10
    Member Array Tye_Defender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    There are all kinds of ministries. While I don't see myself leaving to go advocate for 2A, it may be that God has called him to this. I don't know.
    After 30 years in the preaching ministry, it shouldn't surprise anyone that it is time for him to move on. As you said, it's not my place to judge him or his reasons. This may be his new calling.
    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    I know pastors who have counseling ministries and street ministries and music ministries and on and on. The above-referenced pastor's choices don't make sense to me, but I can't sit in judgment over him.
    It doesn't make sense to me to send people and resources to Africa, when there is an urgent need for help down the street. Lucky for us, we can do both. There can be counseling ministries, and prison ministries, and help-a-church-go-mobile ministries, so why not a help-people-protect-the-innocent ministries.

    That being said, my Punch-In-The-Nose ministry that I am trying to start to help my younger brother doesn't seem to be getting to much support. However, I can't honestly say that I have gotten a calling from God to start it. It's more of a see the need kinda thing. Maybe I just need to wait for God to call me to do it. He keeps calling me to do other things, like work in the church nursery and be a Cub Scout leader, but I'm telling you that a good punch-in-the-nose would probably straighten that boy up!
    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    OTOH, I agree with your comments about the importance of sound, well-researched biblical teaching/preaching. It is the biggest issue facing the church today. How else could Oprah have such a following?
    Okay, maybe that's the other problem with my startup ministry. It really isn't biblically based. Okay, won't do that then. This pastors ministry is biblically based though. All through the Bible you see references to justified self-defense and arming yourself as a protection against wrong.

    I see nothing wrong with a pastor preaching biblical teachings about self-defense. I'm confused why any Bible-believing Christian would have a problem with that.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    The Bible is pretty specific as to the duties and requirements of a pastor. While there would be nothing wrong about a sermon regarding self defense, personal safety does not have a high priority in the Bible.

    It is my own belief that the calling of a pastor is a lifelong calling until he is not physically or mentally capable of continuing. Unfortunately there are those who are pastors who were not truly called. To take much time with personal safety as opposed to the true mission of the church is not Biblical.

    A pastor might have an outreach which could include some work on a street corner, that is more the function of an evangelist. I find nothing in the Bible that would lead me to believe that there is a calling to teach SD to the churches and leave a pastorate. I personally do not believe he was ever called as a pastor.
    There is always a requirement to feed the sheep, spread the gospel to the lost, and minister to the saints.

    I am sure we will just have to disagree on this issue. I don't go to church to hear about the 2nd and SD, but to minister as I can, participate as needed, and hear solid exposition of the Word to grow in the faith.

    Yes, the reason Oprah has such influence is that the public has little understanding of the Bible. Even worse is the Jim Jones deceit caused by lack of scriptural knowledge. I wonder if more people did not lose their lives in the Jones debacle than have been shot in churches.

    As to sending missionaries to Africa, the Church's Great Commission is to take the gospel to all nations. Note that it is to take the gospel to all nations, not to teach all nations to protect the innocent physically.

    Anyway each can do as he will. I suspect that a discussion of the Biblical calling of a pastor will not long be permitted.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  12. #12
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    I'm LDS and nearly every man, woman and child (kidding) carries.
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  13. #13
    RMS
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    +1 to what JerryM said. I agree 100%!

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    I think it is not our place to say what another must do. No where in the bible does it say we have that right. Love loves all, not those that do only what we think they should do. Everything else is just your belief on what another should do. You know about this man only what is stated in the OP. How are you, with such a tiny bit of information about someone, justified in laying out his path for him?
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    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    I've been a Christian my whole life and have never heard anyone present scriptural support for the idea that being a pastor (or any type of official church leader) means you're "locked in" to that job. Anyone who has chosen to dedicate his life to Christ as a servant knows that you go where you're sent and do what you're led to do whether it continues to be the same job or not. As congregation members, it gives us comfort to think that our pastors are there for life but this is based on our own desire for some kind of certainty; there's nothing Biblical about it.

    I'd be interested in hearing opinions from any pastor with 30 years' experience.

    I can agree that being an effective and responsible pastor doesn't leave much room for activism. This is one reason why he stepped down first.

    Formulating my own judgment about the authenticity of another's calling at any point in his life is dangerous business. There are times when responsible Christians must take action when they see something wrong in the church, but I see nothing in this story to indicate a desperate need for me to make such a judgment.

    If he had announced retiring for the purpose of establishing a charity organization for the homeless or abused children, I don't think anyone on here would bat an eye over it.

    Physical self-defense is not a major priority in the Bible. Neither is construction of church buildings or food drives or volunteering to help in the nursery during services, yet each of these line up with Biblical principles and there is hardly a Sunday that goes by where one of them isn't mentioned in your average church.

    I'll wait to see exactly what this guy is trying to do and how he chooses to go about it. For me, THAT will be the litmus test as to whether or not the calling is from God.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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