(Utah Valley University student newspaper) Concealed weapons pose a threat to campus

This is a discussion on (Utah Valley University student newspaper) Concealed weapons pose a threat to campus within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; [QUOTE=CJ810;1338043] Students are trying lots of new ideas. I wrote an anti-gun paper my freshman year. Held my own debating it too. QUOTE] Wait. What? ...

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Thread: (Utah Valley University student newspaper) Concealed weapons pose a threat to campus

  1. #16
    Member Array OldFatMan's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=CJ810;1338043]

    Students are trying lots of new ideas. I wrote an anti-gun paper my freshman year. Held my own debating it too. QUOTE]


    Wait. What? You got some 'splainin to do Lucy. Rebellious, convert, shock value? Just curious.
    I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.

    I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Well, those pretty numbers we pulled from the CDC web site a couple weeks back ended up somewhere. Downside is, they ended up fueling this sod's poor logic in that anti-gun article. Sad. You put good numbers out there for good cause, then they're twisted and viewed differently for a different purpose. Typical human naivete and stupidity, I suppose.

    Here are some Center for Disease Control statistics on gun deaths from the year 2001:
    • Suicide 16,869
    • Homicide 11,348
    • Legal Intervention 323
    • Accident 802
    • Undetermined 231
    • TOTAL = 29,573
    In the hands of upstanding people, the sort who go after CHL's for concealed carry amongst us, the Accidental and Undetermined areas, above, are really the only two areas that apply to the additional risks of acknowledging the right of citizens to carry the means of their own defense.

    Let's eliminate those portions of the table of numbers that have nothing whatsoever to do with concealed-carry or open-carry of defensive weapons by upstanding citizens:
    • Suicides -- Sadly for everyone else, but good for suicides, people who want to end their lives will find some method of doing so, whether we wish them to fail in their attempts or not. Their ability to find a firearm might fail, but then they'll simply fling themselves off the nearest overpass into an oncoming Peterbilt, or whatever. Irrelevant for evaluating the risk of CHL.
    • Homicides -- In reality, THIS category is exactly what upstanding citizens are seeking to defend against. THIS number represents the number of murderers out there who are tearing our civilization apart via their heinous actions. Upstanding citizens seek to defend against such people. That's a good thing.
    • Legal Intervention -- This is the category of police capturing criminals, not due to accident. That's a good thing.


    The ONLY additional risk posed by acknowledging the right of citizens to carry defensive firearms is reflected in the Accident and Unintended categories.

    From 1999-2006 (an 8yr period), there were 1.2M injuries due to all causes, in the USA. Of these 1.2M injuries, less than 8K were due to Accidental or Unintentional firearms discharge. That's 0.6%, or six-tenths of one percent. About three times that number get killed via mistreatment from their own doctors. About four times that number drown. This 0.6% number is 1/25th as many who poison themselves each year, via sucking on bottles of Drano or Ajax.

    Let's keep things in perspective, instead of going off the deep end like the poor sod who wrote that tear-jerker in the student rag.

    What he's really suggesting is that upstanding people should, for the supposed good of everyone else, refuse to be able to defend themselves against crime. There is no real rational reason for doing so, other than folks feel better with them unable to defend. That should be sufficient, right? Right??

    Gads. What possible good can come of that, from people being wholly unable to defend against attack by violent criminals? None, so far as I can tell, other than a few knee-jerk folks feeling a bit better that we're all in things together, that we're all equally incapable of putting up a defense against crime. For whatever that's worth.

    In a threatening world, threatened by murders, rapists, robbers and other criminals, it is about as nearly an absolute GOOD to have upstanding people carrying the means of their own defense as can be contrived.

    Yes, there is a small added risk of a few people who will go bonkers by failing to properly handle and control their new tools (~0.6%), but this will add hundreds of thousands (or millions) more people who are carrying defensive, life-saving tools. That can only help to reduce the number of people who are ultimately victimized by criminals.

    In almost every way that can be measured, that's a good thing.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 17th, 2009 at 02:24 PM. Reason: clarity, grammar
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrioticRick View Post
    10 to 1 this person is an Out of Stater and see what happends when you let Out of Staters go to your schools, they write BS. If you don't like how they do it in Utah, don't got there, keep your a$$ in California. JMHO
    AGREE 100% GO HOME OR H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  5. #19
    Member Array skot's Avatar
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    At least at UVU the person who wrote this crap will be in the minority opinion. I went there when it was still Utah Valley State College.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    UVU already allows students to carry concealed firearms, doesn't it? I know Utah state law allows it, but I'm asking about UVU specifically. I'm currently taking courses online from them and want to transfer to the campus to study Forensic Science (there's no online program for Forensic Science, but I am allowed to take some of the general education prerequisites online.) Just want to know if I should continue to give them my $$ or not.
    Ron Paul 2012

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  7. #21
    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    UVU already allows students to carry concealed firearms, doesn't it? I know Utah state law allows it, but I'm asking about UVU specifically. I'm currently taking courses online from them and want to transfer to the campus to study Forensic Science (there's no online program for Forensic Science, but I am allowed to take some of the general education prerequisites online.) Just want to know if I should continue to give them my $$ or not.
    UVU is a PUBLIC college, just like Salt Lake Community College, University of Utah, Utah State University, Southern Utah University and a few more that receive state education fund. Brigham Young University and a few other PRIVATE colleges in Utah prohibit concealed carry -- their policy. It's legal to carry on PUBLIC school campus. If in doubt, contact Utah Bureau of Criminal Investigation and ask for a knowledgeable employee at (801) 965-4445. The majority of faculty and student population DISLIKE Utah law "forcibly allowing" public college to accept campus carry, but they can't do anything about it (non-infringement of constitutional rights). Have an Utah concealed firearm permit first to enjoy the 'privilege' of concealed carry on campus.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    UVU is a PUBLIC college, just like Salt Lake Community College, University of Utah, Utah State University, Southern Utah University and a few more that receive state education fund. Brigham Young University and a few other PRIVATE colleges in Utah prohibit concealed carry -- their policy. It's legal to carry on PUBLIC school campus. If in doubt, contact Utah Bureau of Criminal Investigation and ask for a knowledgeable employee at (801) 965-4445. The majority of faculty and student population DISLIKE Utah law "forcibly allowing" public college to accept campus carry, but they can't do anything about it (non-infringement of constitutional rights). Have an Utah concealed firearm permit first to enjoy the 'privilege' of concealed carry on campus.
    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Didn't know how exactly it worked.
    Ron Paul 2012

    There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    The majority of faculty and student population DISLIKE Utah law "forcibly allowing" public college to accept campus carry ...
    I've heard this said before. Are there published poll results, on this, or is this a guess?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #24
    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I've heard this said before. Are there published poll results, on this, or is this a guess?
    Just my guess. I had a professor in Humanities (Philosophy Ethics and Values, ironically) at UVU who is ideologically opposed to legal concealed carry at specific places, including college campus. I deduce the majority of professors, instructors, and students are opposed to legal concealed carry for the reason of fear and paranoia associated with the media portrayal of firearms as deadly and evil, like the utterly ignorant and hysterical editorial decried RKBA. Extremely biased mainstream and alternative media, that prefer sensationalism for ad revenues and propaganda, portray guns as evil and dangerous disregarding the life-saving and crime-curbing benefits, and sheep follow blindly.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    I deduce the majority of professors, instructors, and students are opposed to legal concealed carry for the reason of fear and paranoia associated with the media portrayal of firearms as deadly and evil ...
    Whereas, that could simply be a biased media showing itself, and thus be no material reflection of the actual thoughts of the majority of individuals.

    Remember, media trumpets its own opinions for its own agenda. The pervading opinions of Utah citizens affiliated with universities (students, faculty, staff, let alone the public) might well have nothing to do with its agenda. Rather, it's agenda might be to skew opinion, in spite of realities.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #26
    Member Array CJ810's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=OldFatMan;1338430]
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ810 View Post

    Students are trying lots of new ideas. I wrote an anti-gun paper my freshman year. Held my own debating it too. QUOTE]


    Wait. What? You got some 'splainin to do Lucy. Rebellious, convert, shock value? Just curious.
    I was at a very conservative Christian university. A lot of my classmates claimed to be conservative but couldn't give you a good argument for why, other than that Daddy and Rush were. I was a "Clinton fan" for a semester while I was there also, just to annoy the guys on my hall that couldn't find a decent argument in a bar or a library (not that we were allowed to go to bars). Strangely my temporarily chosen positions coincided with getting put on probation. Probably unrelated ;-).

    I've always been kind of contrarian/rebellious.

    I was 19 and was exploring new ideas & taking a liberal/progressive approach was a good way to not have the same topic as 3 other people in the class.

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