Firearms obsolete?

This is a discussion on Firearms obsolete? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So what do you think happens with the 2A if a future technology not yet envisioned or invented makes firearms obsolete? Firearms made swords and ...

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Thread: Firearms obsolete?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Firearms obsolete?

    So what do you think happens with the 2A if a future technology not yet envisioned or invented makes firearms obsolete? Firearms made swords and bows obsolete. Swords and bows made sticks and stones obsolete...

    Or do you think firearms are like electricity, communications and transportation that can only get better and never be obsolete?

    Thoughts?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    The 2nd A refers to your right to bear arms not rifles or handguns. One can "arm" themselves with a rock despite their obsolesence. So, if a better mouse trap obviates the current projectile hurling devices, we'll have to hope some brave folks will set case law and the 2nd Amenment stays in tact.
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  4. #3
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    People are still bowhunting, and I sure wouldn't want to get hit with one of those broadheads nowadays; recently there was a post on here about a guy defending himself with a samurai sword, cutting the arm off of his assailant I believe.

    I don't think any of those weapons will ever be obsolete.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  5. #4
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    "The right to bear arms"

    an "arm" can be anything used for defense.

    It doesnt matter if its a blowdart, a rifle or a sound pulse.
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    You can make a good argument that "arms" refers to the same basic type of weapon used by the average infantryman of the day.

    So, if in the future our infantry are armed with Star-trek style phasers, we get to have 'em too! Of course, they'll probably cost a zillion dollars, but whatever...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  7. #6
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    Obiously, the invention of gun powder has been around since the 1st Century...it's not going to be replaced anytime in the future, not in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes, nor our grandchildrens' lifetimes.
    Will weapons change with technology? Probably, but the 1911, Glocks, and many others will be around forever...well almost forever.
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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Firearms are nothing more, or less, than a type of 'arm'.

    Main Entry: 3 arm
    Function: noun
    Usage: often attributive
    Etymology: Middle English armes (plural) weapons, from Anglo-French, from Latin arma
    Date: 13th century

    1 a : a means (as a weapon) of offense or defense; especially : firearm b : a combat branch (as of an army) c : an organized branch of national defense (as the navy)
    2 plural a : the hereditary heraldic devices of a family b : heraldic devices adopted by a government
    3 plural a : active hostilities : warfare <a call to arms> b : military service

    — up in arms : aroused and ready to undertake a fight or conflict <voters up in arms over the proposed law>

    Source - arm - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    What ever future arms might come along be it electronic, chemical, powered by air or be farts in a can they too as they are in the current (i.e. OC/CS) are and would be deemed an 'arm' and thus relevant to and protected by the 2A.

    This is a question that at a forum such as this should not be asked as simply because it's a no brainer.

    - Janq

    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
    - The United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, Amendment II
    Source - LII: Constitution
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    Obsolete is immaterial.
    John Deere two cylinder tractors are obsolete.
    They are working fools and still till the earth.
    A team of horses is obsolete.
    The local Amish use them every day to very good effect.
    With e-mail, IMs and texts, letters are obsolete.
    I still write letters.
    Maybe I am obsolete.
    I am still working, still earning a paycheck, still providing for my family and just published my second book.
    Obsolete?
    "Deine Papieren bitte?" or "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !"
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  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    A knife is one of the first bladed arms. Its still in use.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    What would happen...?

    Hey....is that a 45 caliber rock you got there? Okay, 'cause you can't shoot 'Magnum' rocks in this range......
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  12. #11
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    Firearms are changing for sure. But the more sophisticated they get, the more links in the chain that you have to watch. I don't see myself ever owning one of these guns, but I will have my current stash of weapons forever.

    November 11, 2009

    Army News Service|by Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner
    --
    FORT BELVOIR, Va. - A Soldier successfully shoulder-fired a "smart" High Explosive Airburst, or HEAB round for the first time Aug. 11 from the XM-25 weapon system at Aberdeen test Center, Md.
    The Army plans on purchasing more than 12,500 XM-25 systems starting in 2012, which will be enough to put one in each Infantry squad and Special Forces team, according to officials at Program Executive Office-Soldier.
    At first glance, the XM-25 looks like something out of a Sci-Fi movie. It features an array of sights, sensors and lasers housed in a Target Acquisition Fire Control unit on top, an oversized magazine behind the trigger mechanism, and a short, ominous barrel wrapped by a recoil dampening sleeve.
    Unlike a Hollywood prop, however, this weapon is very real and designed to accurately deliver an explosive round that neutralizes targets at distances of up to 700 meters - well past the range of the rifles and carbines that most Soldiers carry today.
    "What makes this weapon system truly revolutionary is the ability to target the enemy, pass on this information to the sensors and microchips of its 25mm HEAB round, and have that round detonate over the target," explained Maj. Shawn Murray, a Soldier Weapons assistant product manager in PEO Soldier, the organization responsible for developing the XM-25.
    "When the HEAB round explodes, the target is peppered with fragmentation," Murray said. "Our studies indicate that the XM-25 with HEAB is 300 percent more effective at incapacitating the enemy than current weapons at the squad level."
    Because of the XM-25's unique TAFC and HEAB round, Soldiers will be able to engage enemy forces located in the open and "in defilade" -behind cover, such as walls, rocks, trenches, or inside buildings. The semi-automatic weapon's magazine holds four 25mm rounds and can be employed at night or during inclement weather thanks to the XM25's built-in thermal sight.
    After only five minutes of instruction at the Aberdeen test Center, Sgt. Logan E. Diveley from the 180th Infantry Regiment was able to put his first HEAB round through a building's window and take out an enemy mannequin at 200 meters.
    When asked what he thought of the weapon, Diveley responded, "I've been in over nine contacts with the enemy during my two tours in Iraq. Their ambushes were usually initiated with an IED and followed up with small arms fire from behind walls and buildings, places where it was hard for us to get at them. The XM-25 would have taken care of things and made our jobs much easier."
    Once downrange and in the building where the defeated enemy mannequin lay, Maj. Murray noted the limited collateral damage associated with the XM-25.
    "Because of its pinpoint accuracy and relatively small warheads, the XM25 can neutralize an enemy without the need to destroy a whole building," Murray said. "For our counter-insurgency operations to be successful, it is important to keep collateral damage to a minimum and to protect the civilian population. I think the XM-25 will prove itself many times over in Afghanistan," Murray said.
    The XM-25 is being developed by PEO Soldier, the Army acquisition organization responsible for nearly every piece of equipment worn or carried by Soldiers. This includes items ranging from socks, to weapons, to advanced sensor and communication devices. PEO Soldier bases much of its work on the feedback from individual Soldiers, developing or procuring solutions to meet those needs.
    The development of the XM-25 is one such a program, designed to provide Soldiers a solution for dealing with enemies in the open and behind cover that is more precise, quicker to employ, and more cost effective than mortar, artillery, or airstrikes.
    A Battlefield Scenario for the XM-25
    An American patrol nears a walled, Afghan village when an enemy combatant looks over the wall and fires his AK-47 rifle at the oncoming U.S. Soldiers. The Americans return fire with their rifles and maneuver, but find it difficult to neutralize the enemy rifleman who repeatedly exposes himself for only a second, shoots, then ducks behind the thick wall. At this time, the patrol leader calls for the XM-25 gunner to take action.
    Immediately, the XM-25 gunner aims the laser range-finder at the top of the wall where the enemy last ducked down. The gunner presses the laser range finder button on the front of the XM-25's trigger guard and records a distance to the wall of 451 meters. The distance is displayed on the TAFC's optical lens along with an adjusted aim point, or "cross hair," to help the soldier better aim the XM-25.
    The adjusted aim point takes into account air pressure, temperature, and the ballistics of the 25mm round for the given range of 451 meters. The soldier then uses the increment button on the trigger guard and adds one more meter to the firing solution since the enemy combatant is about one meter behind the wall.
    Upon pulling the trigger, the TAFC programs the HEAB round in the chamber of the weapon, telling the round to explode at 452 meters from launch point. The HEAB round departs the rifled barrel, arms at 30 meters, clears the top of the wall at 451 meters and explodes its two warheads at 452 meters, right above the enemy. The entire firing sequence takes the gunner less than five seconds to aim and fire and another 2.5 seconds for the round to fly and explode over the target, thereby clearing the way for the patrol to resume its mission.
    (Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner writes for PEO Soldier - Soldier Weapons)

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The oldest of arm is a stick used as a club or spear.



    Man has been bearing arms to varying degrees of obsolescence since our dawn/creation.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    I think this is a really interesting and important question. I fully agree that the word in 2A is arms, and not firearms. However, I don't think that is the way the Supremes and most courts have interpreted things; and certainly our law makers seem to distinguish between types of arms in the law. E.g., difference between CHL and CWP. Difference between full auto and semi-auto.

    There are plenty of laws prohibiting the carrying or possession of all manner of arms and other "defensive" devices; --- as compared with firearms. Knife laws are a great example as knives of one sort or another, were perhaps the original arm after sticks and stones. The recent thread on OC is a great example to as OC too is an arm, just a modern one not in existence in 1788; and same for the taser.

    I think if some hand held science fiction laser-like weapon were ever developed, there would be plenty of law makers and judges who would find that the new device is not an arm within the meaning of the constitution. They would argue the original meaning of the constitution was firearms, and subsequent inventions don't count. We have indeed had a few participants here try to take that position out of loyalty to a very narrow interpretive philosophy. (I'm not agreeing with that at all, just pointing out that some folks on both sides of the debate hold that viewpoint.)

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Of course you are correct Hopyard, the Supremes current and many citizens as same do actively view restriction (infringement) as being necessary, applicable and even to a large minority would like to see _all_ arms to be restricted in whole.

    That much is and has been left to interpretation as by courts.
    Hence personal ownership of an atomic arm is highly restricted, for example.

    But as to firearms in specific per the OPs question it is not likely that they will ever become obsolete as a functional choice. as akin to clubs, arrows, spears, knives and swords.

    As to the future it is now with electronic, chemical, visual and auditory weapons currently in play. Restricted as infringed in various areas of the country.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #15
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    re: Jang

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post

    As to the future it is now with electronic, chemical, visual and auditory weapons currently in play. Restricted as infringed in various areas of the country.

    - Janq
    Sadly, that word "restricted" and that word "infringed" in your second sentence is the long term future as those electronic, chemical, visual and auditory weapons come into play.

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