do you feel your permit is.....

do you feel your permit is.....

This is a discussion on do you feel your permit is..... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Do you feel your permit to carry a firearm is your right or a privilege? personally i feel it's my right to do so but ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Chazeman2's Avatar
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    do you feel your permit is.....

    Do you feel your permit to carry a firearm is your right or a privilege? personally i feel it's my right to do so but i sort of feel like it's treated as a privilege. thoughts?


  2. #2
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    Pretty clear...RKBA...The Right to Keep and Bear Arms...
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    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    I personally believe that it is a RIGHT, but unfortunatly the laws and the people who MAKE them have turned it INTO a privilege.
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    Member Array Chazeman2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Pretty clear...RKBA...The Right to Keep and Bear Arms...
    i know they say it's a right. but what about the may issue states and the states with no permit to carry. and even the shall issue states!!!!

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    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    Chazeman, thats why I posted as I did. It is a right, but the lawmakers have turned it into a privilege.
    BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6
    Hesitation kills faster than a bullet.
    If your head is up your *$$ you are unaware of danger. You are in the perfect position to kiss it goodbye.
    Open Carry LAW for Pennsylvania
    http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...pdate_2009.pdf

  6. #6
    Member Array Chazeman2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinNEPA View Post
    Chazeman, thats why I posted as I did. It is a right, but the lawmakers have turned it into a privilege.

    haha that flew over my head sorry. Also i was just saying that in an excited way. not to be an ass!! :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazeman2 View Post
    Do you feel your permit to carry a firearm is your right or a privilege? personally i feel it's my right to do so but i sort of feel like it's treated as a privilege. thoughts?
    It is your right as long as you abide by the rules (law).

    You have a right to drive a car once you pass a driver test and become licensed, but your privilege may be taken away from you if you get caught driving drunk.

    You have a right to bear arms but your rights or privilege can be taken away from you if you do not abide by the law.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazeman2 View Post
    Do you feel your permit to carry a firearm is your right or a privilege?
    The permit and the permitting process is obviously privilege, dumped on the heads of citizens by a damned few cloaked in authority.

    But I believe that both the ownership AND the carrying of arms of all kinds is an inalienable part of being a free person in a free land of free people.

    My nickel ante ...

    It's a fact that when the free people of the several states in the 1780's agreed on the set of core, founding principles that would guide them collectively, they proposed the Constitution's articles and initial amendments. Among the core, bedrock principles that formed the basis of justice for ALL people was the acknowledged, preexisting, inalienable right to have arms and to bear them as a person sees fit. NOT by your leave, not by your permission, and NOT only after crawling to City Hall to beg for the ability to defend one's family and one's life against roving terrorists we call felons.

    I believe that the foundation principles of these free people were eloquently laid out in Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and in the Federalist Papers. I believe it cannot be argued otherwise. I believe that free people have every right to obtain arms, keep them, travel with them, carry and otherwise bear them at all times, anywhere in any manner they see fit in order to help assure the safety and well being of themselves and their loved ones.

    I believe that any law seeking to disavow these principles or disallow this right of free people is an unjust law and should be resisted.

    Now, there are many forms of resistance. My own government will brand me felon and clap me in irons at the point of a gun if I dare "resist" to the point of thumbing my nose at these laws. Such is our system, whereby "resisting" consists of working the system to legally reverse such heinous outrages of justice.

    So, that is what I do, in what sometimes appears to be a vain attempt to even get my elected autocrats to listen to a damned thing I say or point out. I get brushed aside, palmed off onto someone else, given a pat answer from some book of pat answers and otherwise not assisted in the fight to de-construct this time bomb of injustice that has been built, via the repealing of all unjust laws that seek to thwart the absolute right of people to be armed in the defense of themselves and their families, a right that was not questioned 150yrs ago but one that hangs by a ratty thread now, only a couple autocratic votes away from being obliterated to dust.

    I hope it never comes to the point of temporarily-elected autocrats dictating at the point of a gun whether people live or die via the criminal attempt at full disarmament of citizens. I do not want tens of thousands of petty autocrats to see what an enraged citizenry can unleash when they have been pushed against the wall of injustice once too often. I do not want that anarchy, however brief, to occur in order to have this justice done.

    So, I remain hopeful that the elected autocrats can see justice when it slaps them upside the head, hopeful that we can get the courts to pull the finger out and start ruling Constitutionally in support of that which is plain as day to most people.

    Again: I believe RKBA is an absolute right of all free people. It should be a universal sacrilege and abomination that autocrats (elected or not) dare attempt to force citizens at the point of a gun to bow down and kiss their toenails via the principle of forcible disarmament, on an issue that well and truly is one of life and death for people who end up facing the maw of the dragon (armed, violent felons) on their own ... disarmed and pre-victimized by their own "kings" ahead of the ultimate crime of taking their lives, raping their children, ...

    Tyranny has no place, here. Not in the USA. Not here.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; November 24th, 2009 at 06:37 AM. Reason: grammer
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    It is your right as long as you abide by the rules (law).

    You have a right to drive a car once you pass a driver test and become licensed, but your privilege may be taken away from you if you get caught driving drunk.

    You have a right to bear arms but your rights or privilege can be taken away from you if you do not abide by the law.
    You contradict even yourself.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The permit and the permitting process is obviously privilege, dumped on the heads of citizens by a damned few cloaked in authority.

    ....

    Tyranny has no place, here. Not in the USA. Not here.
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

    Absolutely!!

    My right and their required permit are two different things.

    A right is something you have -- until taken away in an individual adjudication by the judicial system. You don't have to do anything to earn/acquire a right. You can loss it, but it is yours until you do!

    Here in Virginia, the right to keep (own) and bear (OC) is a right -- situs exceptions (being in a place where weapons are forbidden) apply however.

    Unfortunately, the privilege of CC was dumped on the heads of citizens by those cloaked in authority.

    Oh, for the Alaska model of gun laws -- albeit w/ less situs exceptions.

    IMHO, all of the few situs exceptions, which are mandated, should require a safe lock-box be provided to you, free of charge -- to provide the ability to be armed up to the point of arrival and when leaving the restricted area.
    Last edited by DaveH; November 24th, 2009 at 09:22 AM. Reason: typos
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazeman2 View Post
    Do you feel your permit to carry a firearm is your right or a privilege? personally i feel it's my right to do so but i sort of feel like it's treated as a privilege. thoughts?
    At this point in time, it's a PRIVILEGE. That doesn't mean I agree with it. As far as I'm concerned it should be a RIGHT.

    But ask yourself this, if you're getting a "PERMIT", is it really a "RIGHT"? Last I checked, I didn't need a "permit" to be alive. I don't need a permit to walk to the grocery store and buy food. I don't need a permit to breath. I don't need a permit to have children.

    I do however need a permit to carry concealed, drive a car, buy land, keep said land etc... Not much by way of rights are they?

    The simple fact is that we are ALL pushovers that would rather pull a Jim Carey venting act from the movie Liar Liar(traffic stop scene) then do what is necessary to get our rights back and keep them.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #12
    Member Array ibesarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The permit and the permitting process is obviously privilege, dumped on the heads of citizens by a damned few cloaked in authority.

    But I believe that both the ownership AND the carrying of arms of all kinds is an inalienable part of being a free person in a free land of free people.

    My nickel ante ...

    It's a fact that when the free people of the several states in the 1780's agreed on the set of core, founding principles that would guide them collectively, they proposed the Constitution's articles and initial amendments. Among the core, bedrock principles that formed the basis of justice for ALL people was the acknowledged, preexisting, inalienable right to have arms and to bear them as a person sees fit. NOT by your leave, not by your permission, and NOT only after crawling to City Hall to beg for the ability to defend one's family and one's life against roving terrorists we call felons.

    I believe that the foundation principles of these free people were eloquently laid out in Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and in the Federalist Papers. I believe it cannot be argued otherwise. I believe that free people have every right to obtain arms, keep them, travel with them, carry and otherwise bear them at all times, anywhere in any manner they see fit in order to help assure the safety and well being of themselves and their loved ones.

    I believe that any law seeking to disavow these principles or disallow this right of free people is an unjust law and should be resisted.

    Now, there are many forms of resistance. My own government will brand me felon and clap me in irons at the point of a gun if I dare "resist" to the point of thumbing my nose at these laws. Such is our system, whereby "resisting" consists of working the system to legally reverse such heinous outrages of justice.

    So, that is what I do, in what sometimes appears to be a vain attempt to even get my elected autocrats to listen to a damned thing I say or point out. I get brushed aside, palmed off onto someone else, given a pat answer from some book of pat answers and otherwise not assisted in the fight to de-construct this time bomb of injustice that has been built, via the repealing of all unjust laws that seek to thwart the absolute right of people to be armed in the defense of themselves and their families, a right that was not questioned 150yrs ago but one that hangs by a ratty thread now, only a couple autocratic votes away from being obliterated to dust.

    I hope it never comes to the point of temporarily-elected autocrats dictating at the point of a gun whether people live or die via the criminal attempt at full disarmament of citizens. I do not want tens of thousands of petty autocrats to see what an enraged citizenry can unleash when they have been pushed against the wall of injustice once too often. I do not want that anarchy, however brief, to occur in order to have this justice done.

    So, I remain hopeful that the elected autocrats can see justice when it slaps them upside the head, hopeful that we can get the courts to pull the finger out and start ruling Constitutionally in support of that which is plain as day to most people.

    Again: I believe RKBA is an absolute right of all free people. It should be a universal sacrilege and abomination that autocrats (elected or not) dare attempt to force citizens at the point of a gun to bow down and kiss their toenails via the principle of forcible disarmament, on an issue that well and truly is one of life and death for people who end up facing the maw of the dragon (armed, violent felons) on their own ... disarmed and pre-victimized by their own "kings" ahead of the ultimate crime of taking their lives, raping their children, ...

    Tyranny has no place, here. Not in the USA. Not here.
    HERE! HERE!! +1000
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    I believe that it is a right, and as Uncle Ted says, the 2A is my CW permit.

  14. #14
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    It would seem that lawmakers honor the right to own and OC. But, once you wish to conceal said firearm, it becomes a privilege.

    I wonder if I'll soon need a special permit to keep my car in my garage? We all know how may people die in cars each year. And by keeping my car "concealed," the authorities won't be able to read my license plate at a glance.
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  15. #15
    Member Array ibesarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    The simple fact is that we are ALL pushovers that would rather pull a Jim Carey venting act from the movie Liar Liar(traffic stop scene) then do what is necessary to get our rights back and keep them.
    I have a feeling that day maybe in the works Pack.......
    You can only push so long...... we are NOT gonna lay down and give our guns away because the gov. requires us to do so. I really have a feeling that the military will be used to come for the private citizen weapons before everything is said and done...... MPO
    Sarcasm - Just one of the many services I provide!
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