VPC has a CCW shooter page now

This is a discussion on VPC has a CCW shooter page now within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If they keep beating this drum, legislation is bound to follow. VPC - Concealed Carry Killers In 2009, the Violence Policy Center began an ongoing ...

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Thread: VPC has a CCW shooter page now

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    VPC has a CCW shooter page now

    If they keep beating this drum, legislation is bound to follow.

    VPC - Concealed Carry Killers
    In 2009, the Violence Policy Center began an ongoing research project to identify killings beginning in May 2007 to the present by individuals with concealed handgun permits. As the result of a massive campaign led by the gun lobby, almost all states maintain a veil of secrecy around those who have been issued permits to carry concealed handguns. Therefore, the VPC is forced to rely primarily on news accounts for reports of killings by concealed handgun permit holders and subsequent legal proceedings.

    Above is the current tally of killings committed by concealed handgun permit holders identified through news accounts from May 2007 to the present broken out by specific categories. Recognizing that the VPC is relying on news reports, the actual numbers are most likely far higher. This tally is updated monthly. Clicking on each category’s tally will link you to vignettes describing the circumstances for each killing, listed by state. The descriptions also include the current, known status of any charges filed against the permit holder as well as noting instances where the perpetrator committed suicide. (Any concealed handgun permit holders who are eventually acquitted of their alleged crimes are not included in the tallies maintained on the site although the facts surrounding the shooting are detailed.)

    The Violence Policy Center welcomes any new information regarding the status of any case (with verifiable source(s)). Use this link to contact the VPC: VPC - Contact Form.

    Last updated: November 16, 2009
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    Member Array RA229's Avatar
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    The VPC does not support their claims with any proof, while these acts of violence may have happened, (remember some) I don't think they were CC holders. One or two maybe, anyone can go bad. And whats with the pending,(Any concealed handgun permit holders who are eventually acquitted of their alleged crimes are not included in the tallies maintained on the site although the facts surrounding the shooting are detailed.) Looks like they are included to me.
    This is just another attempt by the VPC to make us all look like killers. Finally they say they rely primarily on news accounts for reports of killings by concealed handgun permit holders and subsequent legal proceedings.
    Nuff said...
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    Adding up the numbers provided by vpc I come up with 103 people killed, how does this compare to the number of permit holders nationwide? I did not do the math but I would be willing to bet less than .0001%.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Adding up the numbers provided by vpc I come up with 103 people killed, how does this compare to the number of permit holders nationwide? I did not do the math but I would be willing to bet less than .0001%.
    Over 600,000 in FL alone...
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    Member Array snip's Avatar
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    interesting thing to note is that they include people who have nothing to do with a concealed weapon permit. like the people that committed suicide in there home. having a cwp changed nothing since they were not using there cwp and could of got the guns any without it. perhaps we should start a system like they have and show every single person with a drivers license that ever killed someone with a vehicle and say that because there are so many of them that we should get rid of drivers licenses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Adding up the numbers provided by vpc I come up with 103 people killed, how does this compare to the number of permit holders nationwide? I did not do the math but I would be willing to bet less than .0001%.
    Skewed statistics and Yellow journalism.

    Don't believe everything you read.
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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    What about Body counts in GUN FREE ZONES.

    Did you notice that if the SHOOTER DIED they count him/her in the body count.
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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Funny, the local news just did this a month or so ago. Lets just say this the public responce was one sided. They tried to back track, and CTB.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

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    Member Array UW Dawg's Avatar
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    Firearm homicides in 2007: 10,129
    Firearm homicides in 2008: 9,484

    Numbers for 2009 assumed to be similar to 2008

    Estimated firearm homicides from May 2007-Dec 2009: ~26,000

    VPC number for "killings" by permit holders: 85

    Population of United States: ~308 million
    Concealed Carry Permit Holders: ~5 million



    That works out for one firearm homicide for every 11,846 members of the general population. Similarly, one firearm homicide by a permit holder for every 58,824 permit holders.

    So based on information provided by the Dept. of Justice and the VPC (the latter of which is probably highly skewed), the general population is 4.97 times more likely than a permit holder to commit a homicide with a firearm.

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    I think the actual percentage number of homicides per permit holder is far less. I do not have any numbers to back this up it is just my guess. Permit holders are generally not the BG.
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    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    I've seen that page, and the biggest problems I saw were these:

    1. There's no verification about how many of these people actually had permits. There's only a report that they did, and not all of the original sources say that.
    3. Many of the cases involved people who should not have been issued permits, meaning the issue was not that concealed carry permits are issued in general, but that someone made an error in issuing one.
    4. Some of the cases are legally gray, and were included even though the case hasn't been ruled upon and the defense claims self-defense.

    I think an interesting contextual comparison would be to compare the number of CCW permit holders in all of the VPC's categories to similar shootings by law enforcement officers.

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