Interesting reading: FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders-Crime :MERGED

Interesting reading: FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders-Crime :MERGED

This is a discussion on Interesting reading: FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders-Crime :MERGED within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...e-report-shows . You can take it anyway you want, because as my boss always says, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure"...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Interesting reading: FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders-Crime :MERGED

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...e-report-shows.

    You can take it anyway you want, because as my boss always says,
    "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure"


  2. #2
    Member Array cass8171's Avatar
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    I can't get the page up, it says it can't be found or something like that.
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    Member Array jp3276's Avatar
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    bROKEN LINK
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    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
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    Go to...

    http://www.csmonitor.com

    ... and search for "guns crime 2009"

    For some reason cutting and pasting the URL into this forum doesn't work.
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Can you re-link, or get it to work through tinyurl or bit.ly?
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  6. #6
    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...e-report-shows.

    More guns equal more crime? Not in 2009, FBI crime report shows.
    FBI's latest crime report, for the first half of 2009, shows America is a less violent place even though ownership of guns has surged. Deterrent effect may have a role, but others see no correlation.

    Rachel Smith, 32, of Richmond, Va., looks over shotguns at the Bob Moates sport shop in Richmond in this Nov. 6 file photo.

    Steve Helber/AP
    .Enlarge
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PrintBuzz up!PermissionsEmail and shareRSS.By Patrik Jonsson Staff writer / December 23, 2009

    Atlanta
    The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.

    Add to that the fact that many experts had predicted higher crime rates as the US grinds through a difficult recession, and the discrepancy has advocates on both sides of the Second Amendment debate rushing to their ramparts.

    After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

    Concurrently, the FBI reports that gun sales – especially of assault-style rifles and handguns, two main targets of gun-control groups – are up at least 12 percent nationally since the election of President Obama, a dramatic run on guns prompted in part by so-far-unwarranted fears that Democrats in Congress and the White House will curtail gun rights and carve apart the Second Amendment.

    Pro-gun groups jumped at the FBI report, saying it disproves a long-running theory posited by gun-control groups and many in the mainstream media that gun ownership spawns crime and violence. “Anti-gunners have lost another one of their baseless arguments,” Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, told the Examiner's Dave Workman.

    Some gun-control groups have long sought to establish gun ownership as a health issue, which would expose purchasers to the kind of regulation now imposed on prescription drugs and alcohol. That view embodies the idea that mere exposure to guns makes people more violent.

    But more pragmatically, groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence have mostly targeted illegal sales and gun-show loopholes as the primary problem in America’s gun culture. They say such loopholes and lax enforcement allow violent criminals to get their hands on used, stolen, and inexpensive guns. “The guns that cause the worst problems in this country are not selling for very high prices,” Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm has said.

    No correlation, researchers say
    As advocates on both sides keep score, what’s the rest of America to think as they weigh the relative crime risks – and statistics – in their own neighborhoods?

    The debate over whether guns spur or deter crime has been under way for decades. So far, research has come out with, in essence, a net-zero correlation between gun sales and crime rates. More likely factors for the crime rate decline have to do with Americans hunkering down, spending less time out on the town with cash in their pockets and more time at home with the porch lights on, experts say. So-called "smart policing" that focuses specifically on repeat offenders and troubled areas could also be playing a role, as could extended unemployment benefits that staved off desperation.

    “We can absolutely draw a fact-based conclusion about [whether there’s a correlation between declining crime rates and increasing gun ownership], and the answer is no,” says David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control in New York. “There are very consistent findings that the acquisition and obtaining of carry permits by ordinary law-abiding people has either no or very little impact on the crime rate.”

    He finds more evidence in the FBI’s new report, which shows crimes declining not only across a variety of violent and nonviolent crime classifications, but also in both gun-resistant and gun-friendly corners of the country.

    “When you’re seeing declines [in violent crime] both in cities like Atlanta, which is in a relatively gun-friendly state, and in places like New York City, where it is essentially impossible for ordinary folks to acquire and carry especially handguns, then it’s not the guns that are driving the [statistics],” Mr. Kennedy says.

    A possible deterrent effect?
    But one prominent gun rights researcher, Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee, leaves the door open to the idea that news of booming gun sales could have a deterrent effect on violent criminals.

    “It’s possible that criminals hear about lots of people buying guns, and then you can see a plausible mechanism, that conceivably could have produced a reduction in murder,” says Professor Kleck. “It’s all a matter of perception, not reality, for prospective murderers."
    Last edited by gmark340; December 24th, 2009 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Cannot get full link to remain in post

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Wow, this literally takes ALL of the wind out of the sails of the anti-gunner and anti-CCW crowd in a BIG way. And published in the Christian Science Monitor no less!!

    Let me try with the link, but I will probably fail too:

    "http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1223/More-guns-equal-more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows."

    or

    PHP Code:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1223/More-guns-equal-more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows. 

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders

    FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders
    As Firearm, Ammunition And "Large" Magazine Sales Soar

    Tuesday, December 29, 2009

    Last week, the FBI issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008. If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low. Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI next year.

    According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high. For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.

    Also indicative of the upward trend in firearm sales, the number of national instant check transactions rose 24.5 percent in the first six months of 2009 compared to the first six months in 2008, the greatest increase since NICS’ inception in 1998. Through the end of October, NICS transactions rose18 percent, compared to the same period in 2008.

    More Guns Means More Crime? Hardly. In 2009, more guns meant less crime, in a very, very big way.

    [LINK]

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    So-called "smart policing" that focuses specifically on repeat offenders and troubled areas could also be playing a role, as could extended unemployment benefits that staved off desperation.
    Unemployment bennies saved my home from being burglarized?
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Unemployment bennies saved my home from being burglarized?
    Seems reasonable enough to me. We've seen a few articles lately about folks robbing convenience stores and sending "I was so desperate" apology notes weeks or months later.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I wonder why we havn't heard about these statistics in the main stream media? Maybe because they don't like what they imply? That sounds like objective reporting to me
    Walk softly ...

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    good read thanks...
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  14. #14
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    Excellent news, but it will not take long time before anti-gunners say that it is because of them that it happens.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    No correlation, researchers say
    Agreed. Glad to see it printed.
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