Post-Heller in the District of Columbia -- RKBA, yet?

Post-Heller in the District of Columbia -- RKBA, yet?

This is a discussion on Post-Heller in the District of Columbia -- RKBA, yet? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Let's restrict comments in this thread to the practical results of the SCOTUS DC v. Heller decision, in terms of what is actually occurring. There ...

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Thread: Post-Heller in the District of Columbia -- RKBA, yet?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Post-Heller in the District of Columbia -- RKBA, yet?

    Let's restrict comments in this thread to the practical results of the SCOTUS DC v. Heller decision, in terms of what is actually occurring. There has been very little published in the newspapers.

    Please, no politics. Let's discuss the practical ramifications of the Heller ruling only.

    Since the decision:

    1. What is the average DC metro citizen able to do, now? Can people buy guns, use them in their defense, wear them at their property or businesses, start a gun store business, etc.?
    2. What is the DC leadership still doing in contravention of the Heller ruling, delaying the inevitable?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array joker1's Avatar
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    I got nothin', but am real interested. The only thing I know of is this Gilbert Arenas debacle, I don't know for sure if it is a D.C. thing or an NBA thing.

    Staying tuned....
    NRA Life Member

    With great power comes great responsibility.-Stan Lee

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
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    There is one dealler located in Maryland who can sell to DC residents. The effect is that DC has found new original ways to circumvent the 2nd ammendment rights of US citizens. Doesn't every public official take an oath to uphold the Constitution? Isn't that Treason when they don't? Just saying.

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  5. #4
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    Array Hopyard's Avatar
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    It appears to have had almost no effect whatsoever. Even if the Supremes incorporate 2A and rule against IL, the ruling will still have limited effect.

    There are simply too many local legislators, state reps, LEs and judges who are going to do everything they can to keep the status quo.

    Only a firm unequivocal order to a political entity will shift things. What we got from Heller was OK, but hardly helpful--- as many here predicted.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Heller was a strategic win, not a killshot to gun laws in DC. I'm not surprised that the ruling was effectively useless for the immediate benefit of DC residents, but it layed the first bit of groundwork for future cases.

    McDonald vs Chicago will do the same, and I don't really expect the Chicago politicians to throw up their hands and give up, even if the ruling goes the way we want it to. They'll find a crafty legalese way around it and continue to do what they want.

    However, now, in the case of DC, and in more places as this line of jurisprudence is fleshed out, those rulings will always be hanging over the politician's heads. And anyone can take their laws to court locally, without having to take it all the way up the line to SCOTUS. The more of these cases there are, the stronger the pressure will get, and the easier it will be to challenge unconstitutional gun laws.

    I believe this has been Gura's strategy all along. Not to much to win the battle for the residents of DC or Chicago, but to create a legal history that can be used by many others to challenge and strike down these laws locally every time their politicians try to reword them.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  7. #6
    Member Array baloo10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    There is one dealler located in Maryland who can sell to DC residents.
    Well, DC does have one gun store inside the district limits.. It is in Anacostia area (which you need to be armed just to enter).. Previously to Heller, the store was in town to assist MPD with transfers and sales to Officers.. Now, it is mainly an FFL transfer clearing house that charges my months salary to import something (I believe gun stores are sill illegal in the district).. I have also heard from a friend (can't verify first hand) that they will not accept FFL paperwork from the majority of other FFL dealers in the country.. SO, it is still almost impossible to get a firearm into the district.. THEN (or actually before that) there is the whole "registration" paperwork that you have to fill out at the MPD headquarters.. I don't know if this changed, but once it first came out in late '08, it came with no instructions (and I believe on purpose) so most of the people filled it out incorrectly and the police denied the application..

    Needless to say, you can get a firearm now into DC, but it is very painful and time consuming.. And, anything semi-auto is still banned You still can't carry at all.. I'm holding my breath on that one.. It would be nice not to have to leave my firearm in VA everyday on my way to work.. But hey, I can wish can't I???

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Actually, there's more than one gun shop in MD that can sell to DC residents. I have seen signs in a couple of stores around here asking DC residents to inquire about the process for buying in that store.

    I don't know what the actual law facilitating these sales is; I know that the proposed one a while back would have allowed DC residents to buy legally in any adjacent state.

    Which begs the question...if a DC resident can buy from an adjacent state, where's my equal protection under the law? I'd sure like to be able to buy in VA and PA...
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ALL: Let's avoid the political rants. (As in, none.)

    In order to keep this thread open, let's stay focused on actual, practical RKBA in the District, in terms of what DC residents can and cannot do, and what the District's leadership is or is not doing to comply with the Heller ruling. Looking for hard specifics, here. by folks who know.

    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  10. #9
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    I read in another forum (I know -- that doesn't make it true) that a DC reporter went through the red tape to buy a gun. They had set up so many steps, forms, fees, etc. that it cost hundreds of dollars just to get approval to buy.

    That isn't a whole lot different than allowing you to have a gun but must keep it disassembled and locked away. Not a lot of folks will have the time/patience/money to get a gun that is actually functional.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    I outlined the process to purchase and register a handgun in DC in another thread. It requires 5 trips to DCMPD headquarters and 3 trips to the FFL. The FFL charges $125 transfer fee. DC charges a total of $60 in various fees. As best I can tell, there is only one FFL in DC that is actually willing to transfer firearms to DC residents. There is no indication that he refuses to accept transfers from most states. There are a number of gun shops in VA and MD that have refused to transfer handguns to DC, because of the legal confusion, but there are also a number that are happy to do transfers. Mark Segraves, a commentator for WTOP in DC, went through the process and had a weapon transferred from a MD gun shop to the FFL in DC, Charles Sykes.

    The DC Code is hosted on Westlaw and is current through 11/19/2009. DC's gun laws are located in:

    District of Columbia Official Code 2001 Edition
    Division IV. Criminal Law and Procedure and Prisoners.
    Title 22. Criminal Offenses and Penalties.
    Subtitle VI. Regulation and Possession of Weapons.
    Chapter 45. Weapons and Possession of Weapons.

    There is no carry of a handgun, concealed or open, without a license. There is no carry of a rifle or shotgun, excepted as provided by law.

    Carry of a firearm is permitted in the registrant's home, while it's being used for lawful recreational purposes, while it is in the registrant's place of business, and while it is being transported. This includes rifles and shotguns.

    Transportation is allowed between places the registrant is allowed to carry. In a vehicle, the firearm must be unloaded and neither the handgun nor ammo may be readily or directly accessible from the passenger compartment. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, then the firearm or ammo may not be stored in the glove box or console, and must be stored in a locked container. If the firearm is being transported other than in a vehicle, then it must be unloaded, in a locked container, separate from ammo.

    These provisions do not apply to a wide variety of local and federal law enforcement, military, or retired DCMPD officers.

    No person shall within the District of Columbia sell any pistol to a person who he or she has reasonable cause to believe is not of sound mind, or is forbidden by § 22-4503 to possess a pistol, or, except when the relation of parent and child or guardian and ward exists, is under the age of 21 years.

    After Heller, the waiting period for transfer of a firearm from seller to buyer was changed from 48 hours to 10 days.

    No seller may sell without a license. DC Council members and the Mayor have indicated that they intend for no would-be gun dealers to receive a license. Handguns may not be displayed by a seller in a manner that allows them to be viewed by the public. The FFL people have used to day, post Heller, has had no firearm inventory, and has merely acted as a transfer point between gun shops outside DC and DC residents.

    No person shall within the District of Columbia possess any machine gun, sawed-off shotgun, knuckles, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, sand club, sandbag, switchblade knife, nor any instrument, attachment, or appliance for causing the firing of any firearm to be silent or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any firearms; provided, however, that machine guns, or sawed-off shotgun, knuckles,s, and blackjacks may be possessed by the members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps of the United States, the National Guard, or Organized Reserves when on duty, the Post Office Department or its employees when on duty, marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen, or other duly-appointed law enforcement officers, including any designated civilian employee of the Metropolitan Police Department, or officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry such weapons, banking institutions, public carriers who are engaged in the business of transporting mail, money, securities, or other valuables, wholesale dealers and retail dealers licensed under § 22-4510.

    Hope this helps.

    Edited to add:

    The process of obtaining a handgun in DC:

    1. Go to DCMPD headquarters to pick up the registration packet
    2. Contact/go to the FFL for transfer information and to arrange for a transfer
    3. Go to Virginia or Maryland to purchase a handgun or purchase one on-line from a source from which the FFL will accept a transfer
    4. Go to the FFL to provide ID and complete the DCPD registration application form and the federal form. Pay $125 FFL transfer fee. No, you don't get your gun, yet.
    5. Go to police headquarters with the completed registration application form. Be fingerprinted. Pass the written test - 20 questions with no more than 5 wrong. Pay DC the $35 fingerprint fee and the $13 registration fee. 10-day waiting period begins.
    6. Go to police headquarters after criminal background check is complete (usually 2-3 days). Bring a notarized statement of eligibility and two passport photos. Pick up your approved registration certificate.
    7. Go to the FFL. Present your approved registration certificate and pick up your handgun. Must be at least 10 days after you applied for your registration.
    8. Go to police headquarters, IMMEDIATELY, taking your handgun for a ballistics test. Pay DC the $12 ballistics test fee. You MUST wait 1-2 hours while the police test fire your handgun.
    9. THEN, you can take your handgun home.
    Last edited by Tom357; January 8th, 2010 at 06:32 PM. Reason: added purchase/registration process
    - Tom
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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    It will take awhile for them to get tired of all the new laws "to get around it' being throw out too .... and then progress will happen.

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