VA HB106 - CC in churches and restaurants

This is a discussion on VA HB106 - CC in churches and restaurants within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Once again, a bill has been introduced to repeal the prohibition against civilian CHP holders from CC in restaurants that serve alcohol. For several years, ...

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Thread: VA HB106 - CC in churches and restaurants

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    VA HB106 - CC in churches and restaurants

    Once again, a bill has been introduced to repeal the prohibition against civilian CHP holders from CC in restaurants that serve alcohol. For several years, the legislature has approved similar efforts, only to have the Governor veto them. We have anticipated that this measure would pass with the continued support of the legislature and a new, more sympathetic Governor.

    Virginia law also prohibits carry, open or concealed, "without good and sufficient reason," in a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held. Good and sufficient reason is not defined. This year, the effort to allow CC in restaurants has been tied to an ill-crafted effort to allow CC in churches.

    The proposed change to the law on carry in churches is in italics.
    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit from carrying a concealed handgun during a meeting for religious purposes with permission of the leader of the meeting.
    Currently, if my non-religious group is meeting in a classroom at a church while a religious meeting is occurring anywhere else in the church, I'm not supposed to carry without "good and sufficient reason" (whatever the law determines that to be, after the fact).

    If this poorly written measure were to take effect, then, my situation would not change, but someone with a CHP who was attending the religious meeting could CC with the permission of that group's leader.

    Sigh. I hate it when people combine separate measures into one bill. A friend of mine is a lobbyist for gun rights, here, and I know for a fact that a number of legislators support allowing CC in restaurants, but do not think guns have any place in church.

    It ticks me off that a near certain victory would be tied to something that is much less likely to pass. It also ticks me off that a legislator would introduce something so narrowly defined and myopic. I really wish these had been introduced separately. Further, I wish, if they were going to change the law on carry in church, that they had eliminated it, entirely, as they propose to do with the law on CC in restaurants. As far as I know, churches are private property, and the decision to allow or disallow carry on church property should be up to each private church, not the government.

    Next Monday is Lobby Day, and I intend to submit two proposed bills to my legislators - one to eliminate the prohibition against CC in restaurants, and another to get government out of the churches. I hope it is not too late to introduce new bills for this session.
    Last edited by Tom357; January 12th, 2010 at 04:12 PM. Reason: changed 'individual' to 'private'
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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    What this law needs is a lot of Jefferson's separation of church and state.
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    Member Array louie19's Avatar
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    HB505 has been introduced which only deals with concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol: Bill Tracking - 2010 session > Legislation

    Here's the relevant wording:
    J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises
    The key is that the words "shall carry" is changed into "who carries". Then it prohibits CHP-holders from drinking alcohol there - which is a good idea anyways.

    I hope one of these bills passes soon!

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I like HB505 much better. I don't like the government telling people what they can do or not do on private property as it pertains to 2A.
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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=louie19;1450467]HB505 has been introduced which only deals with concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol: [QUOTE]
    Urg. So, anyone can OC and drink, but if you CC you can't.

    I think J3 should just go away. Let people who CC use their judgement, like people who OC currently do.
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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    With the permission of the leader seems more restrictive than the good and sufficient reason wording. I consider protecting my family a preety good reason, and I'd have no trouble arguing that, why do I need more permission?

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Tom357;1450988][QUOTE=louie19;1450467]HB505 has been introduced which only deals with concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol:
    Urg. So, anyone can OC and drink, but if you CC you can't.

    I think J3 should just go away. Let people who CC use their judgement, like people who OC currently do.
    Under currently proposed legislation, it would be a misdemeanor in VA to carry a firearm while under the influence of alcohol. Any conviction of an alcohol related crime (DUI, drunk in public, etc.) would be considered prima facia evidence of "under the influence of alcohol" but it is not restricted to those listed code violations. There is no blood alcohol limit specified in the bill, so it could be up to a court to determine whether or not any BAC would constitute under the influence outside of one of those offenses.
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    Member Array Crucible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    With the permission of the leader seems more restrictive than the good and sufficient reason wording. I consider protecting my family a preety good reason, and I'd have no trouble arguing that, why do I need more permission?
    Indeed.

    C-

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