Gun Control Group Gives Obama an ‘F’ - Page 4

Gun Control Group Gives Obama an ‘F’

This is a discussion on Gun Control Group Gives Obama an ‘F’ within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by LMmarine86 I agree that it is ridiculous to think that we can get rid of violence by legislation. In my earlier post ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMmarine86 View Post
    I agree that it is ridiculous to think that we can get rid of violence by legislation. In my earlier post I acknowledged that it would not get rid of it. We always think something is bad when it could be worse. If there were not any gun laws then how do you think it would be? The wild west??
    Murder would still be illegal, right? The Brady bunch uses your wild West quote all of the time. None of their gloom and doom ever seems to come true. Crime rates drop when gun laws are relaxed.

    I think that punishing criminals is the only way to deter crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by LMmarine86 View Post
    This is interesting.... Thought the Brady Bill was pointless.

    The Brady Bill was implemented in February of 1994. In 1997, the number of violent crimes committed with firearms had fallen 25% since 1994, while the overall number of violent crimes had declined 14%

    Check out this site... pretty cool

    Gun Control
    It was pointless and FBI studies have proven it to be so. Those stats you posted are twisted. During the above time frame was when many states were passing (or had recently passed) right to carry laws and violent crime rates were dropping. This was the case before and after the AWB passed. Look at Floridas stats on your linked page.

    Less than 1% of gun crime involves an assault weapon as defined by the AWB. Guns as a whole are only used in about 25% of all violent crimes. That means that assault weapons are used in .25% of all violent crimes. Like I said, pointless legislation.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.


  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMmarine86 View Post
    This is interesting.... Thought the Brady Bill was pointless.

    The Brady Bill was implemented in February of 1994. In 1997, the number of violent crimes committed with firearms had fallen 25% since 1994, while the overall number of violent crimes had declined 14%

    Check out this site... pretty cool

    Gun Control
    You are making the logical fallacy of assuming that correlation equals causation. Do you have any facts to support that the drop in the crime rate has anything to do with the Brady Bill? I can find numbers that show that the violent crime rate peaked in 1992 and started to fall before the Brady Bill was even passed.

  3. #48
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    All I'm really trying to say is there is no one law that could take the credit of decreasing gun violence. It is a mixture of everything. But I refuse to believe that certain laws had zero impact. Could the judicial system be harder on criminals? Obviously... But that is across the board, gun involved or not.
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson

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  4. #49
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    I have no use for the Brady's or Obama. If they condem him, that's just one more voice in a crowd.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMmarine86 View Post
    All I'm really trying to say is there is no one law that could take the credit of decreasing gun violence. It is a mixture of everything. But I refuse to believe that certain laws had zero impact. Could the judicial system be harder on criminals? Obviously... But that is across the board, gun involved or not.
    You believe what you wish. I prefer to believe the truth.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    You believe what you wish. I prefer to believe the truth.
    There are no statistics available to prove your "truth" just like there are no statistics to disprove what I believe.
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson

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  7. #52
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    How old are you? You are starting to sound like a late teen/ early twenty something that has read a book or two and really thinks he knows how the world works.

    There are thousands of documented cases where less gun control reduced crime. There are also the two most glaring examples of strict gun control cities where crime is at it's highest per national average (DC and Chicago). We could also talk about England and Australia where violent crime has skyrocketed after citizens have been disarmed. I'll just give you Florida's numbers and you can do the rest of the homework.

    From your own link...

    * Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:

    homicide rate
    -36% Florida
    -0.4% United States

    firearm homicide rate
    -37% Florida
    +15% United States

    handgun homicide rate
    -41% Florida
    +24% United States
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #53
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    My age has nothing to do with anything... The point I was making earlier was about your truth having no true statistics. You said to 1996. The Brady Bill went into effect in 1994. Your statistics are reflecting the effects it had on society.

    Sir, my opinion is this.... If everyone was a law abiding citizen, obviously having less gun laws and such would be great. Im all for that. Unfortunately it is not like that. What I have researched about the Brady Campaign is that they want the criminal to have a more difficult time in getting a weapon. Does it inconvenience us legal citizens? yes. Is it really a big hassle? yes. COULD it be worth it? YES. Even if it only saves 5 or 10 lives.... I would say it is worth it. But that is from me, a U.S. Marine with no criminal background, and no mental health issues and the such to disqualify me from owning a weapon.. I am also not someone purchasing hundreds of guns to turn around and sell to a criminal that needs a "clean" gun to commit another crime.

    Here is my analogy - Just like in school, they don't create a test for the smartest kid in the school right? No, they create it with the average kid in mind. Same thing with these gun laws. They are not created for the most upstanding people. Its for the criminals. The ones that it is extremely easy for to get their hands on weapons.

    Maybe I am not concerned about the inconvenience because I'm in the Marines and life is always inconvenient.

    Also, distinguished member.... I think it is really RUDE and completely against forum rules for you to act as though age has anything to do with someone's opinion. Maybe its your OLD age that makes you not understand that times have changed....
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson

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  9. #54
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    I would like to point out that I was an adult, able to purchase and carry a handgun, before the Brady bill went into effect (I was 22). I know what it did and didn't do because I was there when it came and when it went. You were probably in grade school (3rd grade in1994 right?). While I'm quite sure your opinion is based on what you've read on the internet, my opinion is based on my real life experiences as an adult. Like I said, I was there and I lived through that era. The difference in our age is important because only a young man is always 100% sure he is right. You were about 8 years old when the Brady bill came in, right? Yet you're sure of your position, right? I encourage you to look at the Brits and the Aussies, and how more gun laws affected the violent crime rates in their countries. I encourage you to look at the District of Columbias record on gun laws and it's violent crime rates during the same time periods (start in the sixties and work up from there). Don't take my word for it and PLEASE don't take the Brady campaigns word for it. Do your own research.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  10. #55
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    Here is an interview showing just how full of crap these people are.

    The Assault Weapons Ban: Brady Campaign - washingtonpost.com

    You can't give fools like this even an inch, the 2nd Amendment clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". There is no constitutional authority for ANY of their nonsense, and once you start accepting the notion that disarming people who obey the law will do anything but make the jobs of the criminals that much easier, you might as well just give up on the whole notion that we can exercise our rights in this country. It's called the rule of law, and it cannot be ignored for the siren call of "ending violent crime". In the end, violent crime will continue unabated, but you will be disarmed and helpless in the face of whatever lawless aggressors want to take what's yours.

  11. #56
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    Like I have stated all along, nothing big will happen in the U.S. concerning 2A from the white house until 2nd term.

    It is interesting that this news piece came out and a few days later there was talk from Ms. Clinton on joining in a U.N. gun control agreement.

    Still, I remain doubtful anything will happen state side until 2nd term. I'm all but certain given the easy to identify (unrelated to 2A) demographic that is motovated to show up and vote for him, and that gun owners will not see him as a threat to 2A, he will have a 2nd term.

    Don't want to get into politics, keeping it focused on the 2A issue, just hashing out general thoughts on the OP topic of this thread. That first term it is all part of a scam concerning his pro-control / anti-gun statements.

    I've stated before the anti-gun crowd would talk him down first term. In the end who else are they going to vote for. In addition, those in the know want to look weak to increase funding for the fight they have planned in 2012 (with legislation in 2013-2015).

    What is going to realy set off everyone in this forum about that time is the number of pro-2A talkers who become turn coats.
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  12. #57
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    His failure is our victory!
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

    Patrick Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  13. #58
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    Why don't we all actively work to ensure it is only four years?
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

    Patrick Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  14. #59
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    Has anyone here read "Freakonomics"? The reason crime dropped around 1995 is the Roe v. Wade decision. Mothers in socio-economic groups most predisposed to having kids who become criminals, had abortions. FBI crime stats record crimes committed by people 18 and up. So, starting 18 years after Roe v.Wade, crime dropped, because fewer criminals were on the street. Clinton claimed initiative to put more cops on the street did it. Nope. He took credit for something years earlier.

    Correlate gun purchases to crime rates for the last ten years or so. Brady is full of it...
    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMmarine86 View Post
    My age has nothing to do with anything... The point I was making earlier was about your truth having no true statistics. You said to 1996. The Brady Bill went into effect in 1994. Your statistics are reflecting the effects it had on society.

    Sir, my opinion is this.... If everyone was a law abiding citizen, obviously having less gun laws and such would be great. Im all for that. Unfortunately it is not like that. What I have researched about the Brady Campaign is that they want the criminal to have a more difficult time in getting a weapon. Does it inconvenience us legal citizens? yes. Is it really a big hassle? yes. COULD it be worth it? YES. Even if it only saves 5 or 10 lives.... I would say it is worth it. But that is from me, a U.S. Marine with no criminal background, and no mental health issues and the such to disqualify me from owning a weapon.. I am also not someone purchasing hundreds of guns to turn around and sell to a criminal that needs a "clean" gun to commit another crime.

    Here is my analogy - Just like in school, they don't create a test for the smartest kid in the school right? No, they create it with the average kid in mind. Same thing with these gun laws. They are not created for the most upstanding people. Its for the criminals. The ones that it is extremely easy for to get their hands on weapons.

    Maybe I am not concerned about the inconvenience because I'm in the Marines and life is always inconvenient.

    Also, distinguished member.... I think it is really RUDE and completely against forum rules for you to act as though age has anything to do with someone's opinion. Maybe its your OLD age that makes you not understand that times have changed....
    You have to understand that the gun control advocates don't give a hoot about actually controlling crime... they want guns out of the hands of everyone. Since criminals don't follow the law anyway they will still obtain guns, knifes, explosives and what have you. The more gun control laws there is the less chances a law abiding person will jump through the hoops to obtain a firearm. This isn't cause they shouldn't have one; it is because of the time and expense they would go through. In their mind isn't worth it cause "it hasn't happen to them" yet.

    Criminals thrive on gun control and firearms bans. Gun free zones are a popular target for criminals and terrorists cause they will meet minimal resistance. To ban firearms is to disarm the victim. This will in turn up the chances of the criminal of succeeding in stealing you blind, raping your wife and daughter then killing both with a knife or illegally obtained firearm.

    I thank you for the service you are providing to protect this nation but please consider the fact that not everyone is a strong, young, trained elite marine.

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