What does this do to my gun rights? - Page 3

What does this do to my gun rights?

This is a discussion on What does this do to my gun rights? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ep1953 It appears your wife won't face the facts and is in fact an enabler for her son. Given this my advise ...

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Thread: What does this do to my gun rights?

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    It appears your wife won't face the facts and is in fact an enabler for her son.

    Given this my advise would be to get a divorce now and protective orders against her exhusband and her son and find a new wife.
    There, fixed it.

    I do have a couple of question though:

    WTH was "Ex" doing in your bedroom? Any and all civil discussion can take place on the porch.

    Why have you tolerated a minor in your home that has been baker acted?

    Why have you tolerated a known, documented drug abuser in your home?

    IMHO you need to sit down and do some hard thinking. Sometimes it's best to just walk away from a situation, and this sure sounds like one of them. When I say "walk away" I mean from the whole family. Otherwise you will be dealing with your wife, her ex and their kid for the rest of your marriage.

    I won't wish you luck in this situation, as more is needed than that.

    Biker


  2. #32
    Member Array merischino's Avatar
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    I am very sorry to hear of everything you have been going through.

    I am not going to be one of the people who recommends you rush out to get a divorce. That's an ultra simplistic view which is a little too knee-jerk for me. People who have children may understand this better than those who don't. People who have only angelic children may understand this worse than those who don't. The parental responsibility does not exactly just end when the child proves troublesome. Even one who proves as troubled and troublesome as this particular 15 year old.

    The mother of this 15 year old probably subconsciously (and consciously?) knows just how bad things are, but is likely being guided by her maternal instinct of love and care for her child and the not necessarily irrational believe that to love and cherish her child she needs to first believe the best about her child. Now, if you can remember that, however misguided her inability to with eyes wide open recognize her documented drug abuser son as a person who has a problem, needs help, and clearly isn't choosing to go get help for himself may not seem quite so bad.

    There is a lot of evidence to be had showing that the parents of drug abusers are most often the last to know, the least likely to have suspected, the most unwilling to acknowledge and accept that there's a problem. 1911luver's wife is not alone in being a parent who has a problem accepting or acknowledging there is a problem. The fact that she is in high denial because of her maternal instinct does not, in my mind, mean that she is meaningless wife trash that needs must be thrown to the wayside along with her child and her ex husband.

    What it does mean? Probably, getting professional help -- from actual counselors (both psychological and legal) -- for the family inclusive of wife, son (if possible), and new husband (1911luver) and exclusive of the ex-husband. The son clearly needs help getting off his substance abuse. It's quite possible (statistically speaking, not this scenario speaking) that his substance abuse is driven by deeper/bigger problems such as an as yet undiagnosed mental health problem, or a psycho-social problem based on history the OP maybe does not already know about (e.g., history of physical threat against the mother may be due to some remembered actual event where damage was done to the son or the father that she feels guilty for and does not discuss with the OP)

    To get to the heart of the matter a lot of talking is called for. Whether that's supervised talking with a mental health professional, or adjudicated talking with a lawyer present, or just plain everyday talking things out.

    It's very possible that, ultimately, the answer for "how do I protect myself in the future" will be most responsibly answered by "eliminate all parties, wife included, from my life going forward". I just don't think this particular answer is one that should be arrived at or chosen based on the number of votes on a forum website.

    Clearly, 1911luver, you feel some level of parental responsibility for this kid because of the history you have with him. Your willingness (not expressed) and desire (not expressed) to possibly establish a rule of law between you and your wife that this kid will no longer be tolerated in your lives (the extreme version) or at your house (the medium-extreme version as seen through your wife's eyes) or without a minimum of x days advance notice and not without both your wife's and your presence during his visit to the home (perhaps a reasonable/respectable place to draw a line?) could serve to either reinforce the bond between you or to rip it apart.

    Whether you putting your foot down and drawing a line in the sand, somewhere, regarding what will be acceptable contact in future with the stepson helps or hinders your marriage is, in my humble opinion, not what's at question here. IMO, you have to put your foot down. It certainly sounds like, by insisting on staying at your brother's house until you two can come to some acceptable resolution, you have already done this.

    Exactly where you draw the line/put your foot down, and how firmly you hold it there, will define the amount of risk to your own life, freedom, and happiness you are willing to take on based on your love of this woman and your feeling of parental responsibility (if any) to this near-adult child.

    It is for you to decide whether or not the wife will have input as to where or if a line is drawn. It is for you to decide whether or not, having drawn a line, you are willing to budge it in some direction and how far to accommodate your wife's needs and expressed desires. It is ultimately for you to decide how much risk to your life, your freedom, your marriage, your home, your bank account, etc etc. you are willing to go.

    Some will argue that the easy/smart thing to do now would be to divorce yourself from this kid utterly and let chips fall where they may. But for the sake of your conscience, your sanity, your wife's conscience and your wife's sanity, and potentially for the sake of a concept I'll call the social contract which requires that parents be responsible for their children until they reach majority.... would setting him free upon his own recognizance right now really be the best thing either for this kid or for society? Would removing him from his mother -- perhaps the only person in the world who can manage still to have a good opinion of him even now -- be of service to him, his mother, or society?

    I am not trying to communicate what would be my vote here. These are just questions you might want to have answered for yourself before you implement any decisive plan. Going through the legal steps to protect yourself as many have recommended are IMHO an excellent idea.

    Going through the analytical steps with or without a professional counselor prior to deciding and staying firm on a necessarycourse of action to minimize the risk to your life and your continued freedom, seem to me like the best way to arrive at a decision that you can live with.
    People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
    - Abraham Lincoln

    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    - Winston Churchill

  3. #33
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    Well, all I can say is that people take a lot of grief when it comes to family matters!

    I draw a line when it comes to jeopardizing my rights of gun ownership or anything which will put my ccw permit in jeopardy.

    Until your wife and you get on the same page you will continue to be at risk of losing your gun rights and your ccw.

    For some people, losing their gun rights is not a big deal or worth losing a family member over. Not me! And not for my wife either. We are both on the same page. Neither of us will jeopardize our gun rights over a domestic issue. What we do is get rid of the domestic issue.

    Yes, I understand we can't choose who is in our family, however we can choose who we allow into our home and who we associate with. Both my wife and I have relatives who we would never allow in our home. In fact, if they showed up on our door step unannounced, we would automatically assume it was for nefarious purpose and ask them to leave immediately or call the police.

    You are stuck between a rock and a hard place as your wife is clearly an "enabler" with regards to her son. If he's been Baker Acted on more then one occasion and if the types of drugs he's tested positive on are true then your wife is ignoring the facts and that is not good.

    You're gonna do what you are gonna do. Heck you may even choose to give up your guns and ability to effectively to defend your life against felonious assault. That is going to be your choice. For my wife and myself, we understand the importance of maintaining those rights and freedoms and we both refuse to jeopardize our ability to own or carry firearms for lawful self defense.

    Good Luck in whatever you choose to do, but until your wife understands and comes to terms with things, your gun rights and or ccw remain in jeopardy.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    Get it expunged. They're not real complicated--I've probably done fifty or more here in Florida. Then, have a background check run on yourself to be assured it's been expunged. Make, and KEEP, copies of everything.

    Lose the 15-year-old stepson. Sounds like he should be living with his dad.

    Don't, under ANY circumstances, allow the ex-husband/father of the aforementioned stepson into your residence.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    "...I have proof my stepson was "baker acted" which here in Florida means that is anyone appears to be a danger to themselves or others they can be legally held for psychiatric evaluation for 72 hours. This has been done to my stepson about 6 times now,hes become violent and has attacked my wife with everything from a butcher knife to broken window glass.

    While he was being evaluated they did blood work on him and he had cocaine,marijuana,pcp,xanex and a few other things in his system..."
    I'd already posted my opinion before I read this. I didn't realize at the time the kid had been Baker Acted...not once, but apparently a half-dozen times.

    An addendum to my prior post would be to run. I don't intend that to be "flip," or insensitive to your situation, but you clearly got a break on this review case from your local State Attorney's Office. I suspect you were originally charged with Aggravated Assault with a Firearm. The SAO didn't find it worth pursuing for whatever reason, and you caught a break. You might not be so lucky next time.

    You've actively sought input on this situation. If it were me, I'd be gone. Nothing but a fading memory.

  6. #36
    New Member Array gimpyrobb's Avatar
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    While I understand what Meri is trying to say, there has been trouble here for too long. He did try to stay and "work things out", now it has caused him jail time! If mom can't see what is going on, its time to go. My only issue is you leaving your house and property unattended. I would ask her to move out till she gets her thoughts in order. What is happening to your ANYTHING while you are gone.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    This hasn't been easy for me I love my wife but I'm between a rock and a hard place here,as is she.
    Take out the trash; move on.

    Sounds like you're doing the right steps. Druggies, ex-spouses, false claims to police ... none of it can do you good. Ditto on the suggestions so far, to document your trail, file a counter-RO against both of them, and to remain armed at all times. You don't know what either (or both together) will do, since they've now shown you their "cards." Obviously, attempting physical violence on you and engaging in false reports to police aren't anything they won't do. Anything's possible, up to an including serious harm to your and your family. IMO, it's time to consider moving, if they're that ugly.

    Be safe.

    Stay armed, alert, aware.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #38
    DM2
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    1911,
    I am sad to hear of your situation and I wish the best for you. I think you have done the best thing by removing yourself from the situation physically. I don't have any children, but I have seen the emotional denial of a mother in action with family members. I have also been in a live-in relationship several years ago with a cocaine abuser. A cocaine habit is a very difficult habit to break due to the way it alters the function of the brain and it takes significant willpower to overcome. That is what I learned about the effects of cocaine on a 38 year old brain. I can't imagine the impact to a brain that is still developing and in combination with all the other substances that have been found in your stepson's system.

    I concur with an earlier comment that there is no reasoning with a mother in denial. She will always see her child through rose tinted glasses. That being said, I think you have to seriously consider the viability of a marriage that jeopardizes your freedom.

    You also have to evaluate your actions in this matter from the standpoint of having boundaries with regard to who has access to your home i.e. Biker's comments. I totally agree with his line of thinking. One could argue that this situation occurred because you have allowed the behavior of your stepson, wife and her ex-husband to go unchecked in the past.

    This was a very loud wake-up call. Addicts are unpredictable. It's up to you now (hopefully with your wife at your side) to end this for good. I will be praying for you.

    DM2
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    "I did the thing I feared the most. Excuse me while I cheer. Now here I stand a stronger soul and all I lost was fear." ...Anonymous

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The kid needs to go stay with his drug user father.If you have any valuables or other guns put them in a safe. You might want to inventory your stuff to see if any thing is missing.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Take out the trash; move on.

    Sounds like you're doing the right steps. Druggies, ex-spouses, false claims to police ... none of it can do you good. Ditto on the suggestions so far, to document your trail, file a counter-RO against both of them, and to remain armed at all times. You don't know what either (or both together) will do, since they've now shown you their "cards." Obviously, attempting physical violence on you and engaging in false reports to police aren't anything they won't do. Anything's possible, up to an including serious harm to your and your family. IMO, it's time to consider moving, if they're that ugly.

    Be safe.

    Stay armed, alert, aware.
    I second the motion. I know its easier said than done but I have distanced myself from family members that have been a pain in the rear. I could not phantom living with such an ungrateful person. Its too late. Kick him to the curb with the Ex Husband. I haven seen or spoke to my sister in 5 years and my monster in law in three. Life's balance has been restored. It can be done. I hope you get the support of your wife. Good luck to you. I sincerely mean that.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    I've removed myself from the situation until this is taken care of I refuse to live in that situation any longer.

    Good for you: Do not go back to that situation. Judging from the cocktail of dope in that kids system; he will probably never straighten out.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    But will the "nollo prossed" (no charges filed) be added to the official record?
    Actually I believe that means it was not prosecuted. Not that no charges were filed. They were filed I would guess... but they decided not to prosecute you on them. But if my Latin still serves me that means "Not prosecuted" and that is not the same as no charges filed. However I am much better at Medical terminology than Legal Terminology!

    I imagine the arrest stems from the common practice of defusing a domestic situation. Getting you out of the house. You were the only potential aggressor they had and so removing you eliminated any escalation for a while. Generally when a complicated domestic dispute flares up, someone is leaving one way or another.

    I think you need to have someone run the record. And also cover your ass in any way shape or form a lawyer tells you too. You need legal council for sure.

  13. #43
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    That kid...I guess like father like son. I'm sure he'll turn out to be a fine upstanding man one day

  14. #44
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    Not sure how you let two druggies out talk you to police. I dont think you represented your self very well at the scene, was you angry? did you disrespect the leos?. I would have explained their drug use to the officers and explained why you felt the need to maintain retention of your firearm because ex- hubby is a drug addicted liar. I also would have called any law enforcement officers who could speak to your character(before the arrest) or asked for one their superior officers to come on scene.
    Always remember before an arrest like this that their is a mini courtroom at the scene with the leo acting as judge and jury...........just my two cents?
    You may not like guns. You may choose not to own one. That is your right.
    You might not believe in God. That is your choice.
    However, if someone breaks into your home at 3AM the first two things you are going to do are:
    1) Call someone with a gun.
    2)Pray they get there in time." - A wise man

  15. #45
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    Counseling?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    Thanks guys for all the helpful replies thus far I've tried in vain to get my wife to accept the facts for what they are,but shes in denial over the seriousness of this kid's plight and thats that hes has a SERIOUS drug/alcohol abuse problem. The kid has asked to be emancipated but she won't hear of it. I've done my best to be a good husband and stepfather I've made mistakes I'm not perfect but I'm human and I'm a good person.

    I feel shes is doing this kid a real disservice by denying his problems and I feel that a drug rehab program is the best thing for him right now. All this has a taken a tremendous toll both emotionally and financially on our marriage. I have to trust that my faith in our lord will carry me through this.
    I would suggest a heart-to-heart with your wife an suggest counseling with her initially, then the son. Not to defend your step-son but he could be having issues with your wife's re-marriage and conflict with you as an authority figure vs. his Dad. Denial by a parent regarding alcohol/drug abuse of a child or spouse is very common.

    Again, just a suggestion. Looking for a win-win for you, your wife and the son. But she definitely needs to kick ex-hubby to the curb.

    Good luck!!.

    -Al

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