John Lott on McCain's positions - Page 2

John Lott on McCain's positions

This is a discussion on John Lott on McCain's positions within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Oh geeeze. I see somebody posted the LIBERTARIAN alternative. I teach Advanced Placement American Government. Like it or NOT we are a two party system. ...

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Thread: John Lott on McCain's positions

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Oh geeeze. I see somebody posted the LIBERTARIAN alternative. I teach Advanced Placement American Government. Like it or NOT we are a two party system. The only role that any third party can offer is that of the "spoiler." Ask Bush #41 about the Reform Party or Gore about the Green Party. In a close race a vote for anyparty #3 is a vote for that which you hate MOST. In this instance a vote for the Libertarian is a vote for the LIBERALs. And there is little enough to distinguish the two. Yes the Libertarians are very PRO-GUN but they are also pro-drug...as in legalizing every dang thing. EVEN IF a Libertarian were to gain the ERxecutive Power, they would be totally hamstrung by an extremely hostile Congress controlled by whatever party. To force a lameduck, the two parties will join forces. As Tony Soprano would say: Fughettaboutit!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier
    Oh geeeze. I see somebody posted the LIBERTARIAN alternative. I teach Advanced Placement American Government. Like it or NOT we are a two party system. The only role that any third party can offer is that of the "spoiler." Ask Bush #41 about the Reform Party or Gore about the Green Party. In a close race a vote for anyparty #3 is a vote for that which you hate MOST. In this instance a vote for the Libertarian is a vote for the LIBERALs. And there is little enough to distinguish the two. Yes the Libertarians are very PRO-GUN but they are also pro-drug...as in legalizing every dang thing. EVEN IF a Libertarian were to gain the ERxecutive Power, they would be totally hamstrung by an extremely hostile Congress controlled by whatever party. To force a lameduck, the two parties will join forces. As Tony Soprano would say: Fughettaboutit!
    We're only stuck in a two party system because people will vote for the lesser of two evils vice their conscience. I support the libertarian thing completely because it supports personal freedom on every front. Which is what we need. The only reason it's impossible is because people won't vote outside what they've been voting for all along, even though both of the parties produce more or less crap candidates on all fronts at this time.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    We're in a "two party system" because that was the way it was designed. Look at the HISTORY of the nation. Third parties are nothing new. It's also not new that 3rd parties don't succeed in winning elections. The Libertarians have had only a modest success on a local or perhaps state level. But go waaaay back to the early 1900's and look at Teddy Roosevelt's "BULL MOOSE" party. He was arguably one of the giants of the American historical landscape. His 3rd party flopped. Your comments remind me of the common rant by liberals that communism or socialism doesn't work ONLY because the right people haven't been in charge....yet.

    Yet there is the undeniable fact that the two we DO have are both broken. The Dems have been overpowered by the left wing extremists...the aforementioned socialists. The 'Pubbies are infiltrated by neo-cons who ACT "conservative" with ulterior motives. RINOS. Everytime the Republicans have failed it was through the failure to truly embrace conservative principles.

    There has been a tremendous failure in the leadership. In some ways, GW has been a great success. We haven't been attacked since 911. That was due to HIS leadership and our awesome military in keeping the Jihadis off balance and fighting on their own turf instead of our home soil. He's gotten the economy roaring along. More jobs created than at nearly any time in history. The tax cuts are helping. Yes we are in a big deficit spending situation but that is simply the nature of WAR. Wars cost money. If we can knock our enemies back on their heels for a spell, we can get a breather and allow the economy to recover. The big thing next is to lower fuel costs. This is a conspiracy fomented by both BIG OIL and the GLOBALISTS.

    They are pushing this "peak oil" crap that is forcing us to capitulate and surrender our industrial complex on the altar of a false theory. FOSSIL FUEL is that theory. Petrolieum is not dead dinosaurs. It is abiotic and naturally manufactured in the deep mantle of the earth. Brought nearer the surface by the centrifugal force of the earth's spin. The Peak Oil theory says that the oil is running OUT. Abiotic oil theory says that the oil is continually being produced by the earth and may never run out. Which one makes people RICH in the short or even the long term? Peak Oil also requires a lot of government intervention in the lives of the people to the terms of a nanny-state because normal Americans can't be trusted to "conserve" energy. Never mind that under Peak Oil, even with conservation...eventually the dead dinosaurs are going to give out. Under the theory of fossil fuels, all the sites MUST eventually be drilled and run dry. I have always wondered why the State of Montana isn't a part of OPEC. I mean there have been more finds and digs of dinosaurs there than in any other part of North America. Anyway, I digress from the main thrust of this argument...the 'Pubbies have had some successes.

    OTOH, this total screwup with immigration rests completely on HIM. A refusal to do what MUST be done may have opened the door to a potential 70,000 terrorists since 1998. Those are Border Patrol stats extrapolated. That's potentially how many bad guys who are waiting to move and are inside our borders already. I have NO CLUE as to why he has allowed this to happen unless there are forces greater than HE at work. Of that, I have no doubt.

    The truth is that both parties are slowly taking on the characteristics of each other, with the fringe elements still in control of both. Third parties are no good. There are too many of them (over 30) to do any good. The 3rd parties are too fragmented to ever coalesce into any sort of formidable political force. The very best they can hope for is to serve as the "spoiler" force in a really close election.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier
    We're in a "two party system" because that was the way it was designed. Look at the HISTORY of the nation. Third parties are nothing new. It's also not new that 3rd parties don't succeed in winning elections. The Libertarians have had only a modest success on a local or perhaps state level. But go waaaay back to the early 1900's and look at Teddy Roosevelt's "BULL MOOSE" party. He was arguably one of the giants of the American historical landscape. His 3rd party flopped. Your comments remind me of the common rant by liberals that communism or socialism doesn't work ONLY because the right people haven't been in charge....yet.
    The WIGGS were replaced, etc. It has happened before. Just because it's commonplace doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen when we need it to happen. Yes, I agree that the Libertarians have had only modest success, but it's still growing. Nothing happens overnight, especially not when the two parties in power legislate things to make it harder on 3rd parties. Teddy's new 3rd party was started at the wrong time when the candidate from his original party was also pretty popular. At another time it might have worked rather well.

    This is also a far cry different from saying we should use communism because we haven't tried it before. Trying to get America to be like it was when it was founded is completely different.

    Yet there is the undeniable fact that the two we DO have are both broken. The Dems have been overpowered by the left wing extremists...the aforementioned socialists. The 'Pubbies are infiltrated by neo-cons who ACT "conservative" with ulterior motives. RINOS. Everytime the Republicans have failed it was through the failure to truly embrace conservative principles.
    I pretty much agree with this although I'd have used different descriptions, but we aren't going there. :)


    There has been a tremendous failure in the leadership. In some ways, GW has been a great success. We haven't been attacked since 911. That was due to HIS leadership and our awesome military in keeping the Jihadis off balance and fighting on their own turf instead of our home soil. He's gotten the economy roaring along. More jobs created than at nearly any time in history. The tax cuts are helping. Yes we are in a big deficit spending situation but that is simply the nature of WAR. Wars cost money. If we can knock our enemies back on their heels for a spell, we can get a breather and allow the economy to recover. The big thing next is to lower fuel costs. This is a conspiracy fomented by both BIG OIL and the GLOBALISTS.
    A lot of this has come at the potential expense of our civil liberties as well as a potential power imbalance in the favour of the executive branch of our government as well. Personally, I'm not willing to ever trade my civil liberties for a little national security and I worked national security at a theater level for several years.

    They are pushing this "peak oil" crap that is forcing us to capitulate and surrender our industrial complex on the altar of a false theory. FOSSIL FUEL is that theory. Petrolieum is not dead dinosaurs. It is abiotic and naturally manufactured in the deep mantle of the earth. Brought nearer the surface by the centrifugal force of the earth's spin. The Peak Oil theory says that the oil is running OUT. Abiotic oil theory says that the oil is continually being produced by the earth and may never run out. Which one makes people RICH in the short or even the long term? Peak Oil also requires a lot of government intervention in the lives of the people to the terms of a nanny-state because normal Americans can't be trusted to "conserve" energy. Never mind that under Peak Oil, even with conservation...eventually the dead dinosaurs are going to give out. Under the theory of fossil fuels, all the sites MUST eventually be drilled and run dry. I have always wondered why the State of Montana isn't a part of OPEC. I mean there have been more finds and digs of dinosaurs there than in any other part of North America. Anyway, I digress from the main thrust of this argument...the 'Pubbies have had some successes.
    It's obvious which side you support and you might be correct, but both are still theories. At the very least we should be looking for something else that we can produce so we aren't dependant on others. This, of course, won't happen as long as our current politicians are in bed with various corporations. Of course, we'll probably never achieve different in that aspect.

    OTOH, this total screwup with immigration rests completely on HIM. A refusal to do what MUST be done may have opened the door to a potential 70,000 terrorists since 1998. Those are Border Patrol stats extrapolated. That's potentially how many bad guys who are waiting to move and are inside our borders already. I have NO CLUE as to why he has allowed this to happen unless there are forces greater than HE at work. Of that, I have no doubt.
    I'd say the screwup on immigration rests on all fronts. No one has done anything about it and now that's it's a national issues (in the spotlight at least) no one is doing the will of the American people. Granted, I'm not very old, but I don't know of any time in history that the government so one-sidedly did what the American people didn't want.

    The truth is that both parties are slowly taking on the characteristics of each other, with the fringe elements still in control of both. Third parties are no good. There are too many of them (over 30) to do any good. The 3rd parties are too fragmented to ever coalesce into any sort of formidable political force. The very best they can hope for is to serve as the "spoiler" force in a really close election.
    I agree that they are both going centrist (which isn't all bad, in some ways), but I totally disagree that 3rd parties can never become a powerful political force. The only thing stopping it is the attitude that the 3rd party can't, so we'll vote for the lesser evil. Basically, in essence, the same attitude that the nobles in Braveheart had.

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