Virginia Dems cheap shot

Virginia Dems cheap shot

This is a discussion on Virginia Dems cheap shot within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; After a huge showing of pro-gun support from members of the House of Delegates and Senate, several dozens of good bills have passed in this ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
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    Virginia Dems cheap shot

    After a huge showing of pro-gun support from members of the House of Delegates and Senate, several dozens of good bills have passed in this legislative session. In response, Senate Democrats have created a new sub-committee solely regarding firearms. This committee has only one Republican member, and the Democrats chosen are said to be very ant-gun...

    AHHHHHH!!!!

    From NRA:

    Virginia: Anti-Gun State Senator Creates Unnecessary Hurdle for Gun Bills in Richmond!
    Please Contact the members of the committee and request a fair hearing on Firearm bills!



    With two weeks remaining in the 2010 session, the Chairman of the Senate Courts of Justice Committee, State Senator Henry Marsh (D-16), announced this morning the creation of a new “Sub-Committee” which will hear all the firearm related bills passed by the House of Delegates.



    Senator Marsh’s motion is unprecedented and a direct slap in the face to Virginia’s law-abiding firearm owners and to the House of Delegates, which has already vetted and voted to approve these bills with many garnering strong bi-partisan support.


  2. #2
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    Sounds like a calculated move by the antis. Good way to impose their will on all firearm related bills.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I would delegate that people not re-elect him in the future,sumpin about by the people for the people
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #4
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    Thumbs down

    *************** ********************

    According to Washington Post, it is worse than I had hoped.

    "Senate special panel likely to kill House bills expanding gun rights"
    Virginia Politics Blog - Senate special panel likely to kill House bills expanding gun rights

    [SNIP]
    Sending the bills to a subcommittee takes advantage of a new practice of the Senate to allow the smaller group of senators to kill bills without requiring a vote of the full committee. The House has long operated under such rules. After years of moaning about how the House often failed to give its proposals the consideration of full committees, the Senate this year decided to follow the House lead and adopt a similar practice.

    Sending the gun bills to a subcommittee ensures the bills will be killed by senators from safe districts, whose voting history on gun issues is well established. It spares Democrats on the full committee who sometimes vote for such bills a tough vote that could hurt their reelection efforts.
    ==============

    Refers to this:
    Virginia Politics Blog - House microchip bill dies with a whimper in Senate[SNIP]


    Also see: http://www.wtkr.com/news/dp-va--xgr-...,1742927.story
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  5. #5
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    And now from a VA-ALERT.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    I have been expecting this to happen for about 3 days now, but I was
    hoping it wouldn't.

    Gun-hater Senator Marsh, who is the chairman of the Senate Courts of
    Justice committee, has created a special subcommittee to "deal" with
    gun bills.

    Who is on this "death star" committee?

    Senator Toddy Puller (Democrat) - anti-self-defense - chairperson

    Senator Henry Marsh (Democrat) - anti-self-defense

    Senator Janet Howell (Democrat) - anti-self-defense

    Senator Louise Lucas (Democrat) - anti-self-defense

    Senator Frederick Quayle (Republican) - pro-self-defense

    --

    First, the good news: the restaurant ban repeal (SB 334), guns in
    locked containers and compartments in vehicles (SB 408), CHP renewals
    through the mail (SB 3), and the right to an ore tenus hearing for
    first time CHP applicants who are turned down (SB 533) ARE ALL SAFE
    from this subcommittee and, unless the House somehow really fumbles
    the ball, should be heading to the Governor's desk in the near
    future. Also, the firearms safety education program for elementary
    schools (HB 1217) is being heard in a different Senate committee:
    Health and Education - it passed out of a subcommittee by 3 to 2 this
    afternoon.

    Now, the bad news: the rest of the pro-gun bills that passed the
    House are **probably** headed to Marsh's death star subcommittee,
    which is scheduled to meet on Thursday. Here is my analysis on the
    fate of those bills that could end up in that subcommittee:


    BILLS THAT ARE GOING TO REQUIRE THE MOST EFFORT TO GET PASSED OUT OF
    SUBCOMMITTEE

    HB 1070, Delegate Athey, allows CHP holders to carry in emergency
    shelters

    HB 108, Delegate Cole, requires localities to sell firearms purchased
    in a "buy up"

    HB 79, Delegate Ware, prohibits Circuit Court Clerks from
    disseminating CHP applicant information

    HB 870, Delegate Cline, repeals the option for localities to
    fingerprint first time CHP applicants

    HB 69, Delegate Carrico, Virginia Firearms Freedom Act, guns made and
    sold in Virginia not subject to federal regulations

    HB 854, Delegate Morefield, Castle doctrine


    BILLS THAT SHOULD REQUIRE LESS EFFORT TO GET PASSED OUT OF SUBCOMMITTEE

    HB 191, Delegate Griffith, allows Circuit Court Clerks to issue CHPs

    HB 490, Delegate Lingamfelter, requires the State Police to put
    together a proposal for lifetime CHP permits

    HB 505, Delegate Gilbert, restaurant ban repeal - probably conformed
    to SB 334, which has already passed out of the Senate

    HB 109, Delegate Cole, repeals the authority for counties to tax
    handgun sales and get a list of handgun purchasers

    HB 885, Delegate Athey, allows a non-CHP holder to have a loaded gun
    in an unlocked container or compartment in a vehicle - probably
    conformed to SB 408, which has already passed the Senate

    HB 52, Delegate Cole, creates a $25 civil penalty if a CHP holder does
    not present his CHP when asked to do so by a LEO


    BILLS THAT SHOULD PASS OUT OF SUBCOMMITTEE EASILY

    HB 1092, Delegate Crockett-Stark, allows retired police to carry
    everywhere they go

    HB 1379, Delegate Sickles, allows NoVA localities to control storage
    of firearms in small child-care facilities


    ------------

    Elections, like the one tomorrow in the House District 41 (Bolognese/
    Filler-Corn), have consequences.

    In 2011 the entire Senate is up for election and we must replace the
    Senate's bad actors on both sides of the aisle with pro-self-defense
    candidates.

    But that by itself probably won't be good enough. Since the
    LEADERSHIP of the Senate is controlled by anti-self-defense Democrats,
    the only way to stop the Senate leadership from continuing to play
    games with our rights is to take them out of power or to reduce their
    power considerably.

    The loss of three Democratic Senate seats, for example, would turn
    leadership of the Senate over to the Republicans, while a loss of only
    two Democratic seats would give both parties joint control.

    *** This might be a good time to begin filling the VCDL-PAC's coffers
    with a lot of money. ***

    -

    Here's a story in the Washington Post on the death star subcommittee:

    Virginia Politics Blog - Senate special panel likely to kill House bills expanding gun rights

    Senate special panel likely to kill House bills expanding gun rights
    The chairman of the Senate Courts of Justice Committee this morning
    announced that he was creating a special subcommittee to hear a
    collection of bills dealing with guns that have passed the House of
    Delegates, including a proposal to repeal Virginia's law limiting
    handgun purchases to one a month.

    The committee's membership leaves little doubt as to the outcome:
    Chaired by Democrat Sen. Toddy Puller (D-Fairfax), the committee will
    also include Democrats Sen. Janet Howell (D-Fairfax) and Sen. Louise
    Lucas. Each have a long history of opposing such bills. The only
    Republican serving on the subcommittee will be Sen. Fred Quayle, who
    said recently he does not favor repealing the one-gun-a-month law.

    Sending the bills to a subcommittee takes advantage of a new practice
    of the Senate to allow the smaller group of senators to kill bills
    without requiring a vote of the full committee. The House has long
    operated under such rules. After years of moaning about how the House
    often failed to give its proposals the consideration of full
    committees, the Senate this year decided to follow the House lead and
    adopt a similar practice.

    Sending the gun bills to a subcommittee ensures the bills will be
    killed by senators from safe districts, whose voting history on gun
    issues is well established. It spares Democrats on the full committee
    who sometimes vote for such bills a tough vote that could hurt their
    reelection efforts.

    Sen. R. Creigh Deeds (D), the party's former gubernatorial nominee,
    for instance, will likely not have to cast a vote on the one-gun-a-
    month issue. He had said during the campaign that he would not veto a
    repeal of the bill but as a delegate in the 1990s, he had backed the
    adoption of the measure.

    Sen. Chap Petersen (D), who represents a swing Fairfax district, will
    also not have to weigh in. Petersen supported a measure earlier in the
    session to allow restaurant patrons to carry concealed weapons in
    establishments that serve alcohol, as long as they do not drink.
    Petersen said recently that he opposed repealing the one-gun-a-month
    law.

    Courts Committee Chairman Henry Marsh (D) denied protecting Senate
    voting records was a motivation for creating the subcommittee.
    Instead, he said he was aiming to "expedite" the work of the
    committee. Without sending the bills to subcommittee, he said the
    committee would not be able to complete its docket this year. [PVC:
    Sure, Senator Marsh - if you say so.]

    The special subcommittee is scheduled to meet Thursday.


    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #6
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    Thumbs down More from the Roanoke Times

    Actually a republish from the Virginian-Pilot

    General Assembly updates: Gun bills may die; charter-school, ABC store tastings bills advance - Roanoke.com

    General Assembly updates: Gun bills may die; The (Norfolk) Virginian-Pilot and The Associated Press

    RICHMOND -- Democratic Sen. Henry Marsh's quest to establish certain gun rights restrictions places several bills that would expand those rights before a firing squad.

    During a Courts of Justice Committee meeting Monday, committee chairman Marsh announced the creation of a new subcommittee where a number of those bills will be sent.

    That panel -- stacked with four Democrats and one Republican -- will have the power to kill legislation in subcommittee, a departure from traditional Senate practices.

    "The subcommittee is authorized to give (bills) a full hearing," Marsh said.

    And if bills get a negative reception from the subcommittee, "it won't be necessary for them to come before the full committee," he added.

    Giving the subcommittee that leeway also could produce another result: bypassing the full committee which includes several pro-gun Democrats.

    Democrats hold 10 of the 15 seats on Courts of Justice.

    But three of those Democrats -- Sens. Creigh Deeds of Bath County, John Edwards of Roanoke, and Roscoe Reynolds of Henry County -- tend to vote with Republicans on gun rights bills.

    Committee member Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Harrisonburg, called the apparent aim of the new subcommittee "contrary to our traditions."

    Asked his view of Marsh's decision, Edwards shrugged his shoulders and said "it's the chairman's decision."

    This kind of action was foreshadowed last week when Senate leaders of both parties spoke publicly about mimicking the House of Delegates' practice of killing bills in subcommittee.

    The new Courts of Justice subcommittee includes Democratic Sens. Janet Howell of Fairfax County, Louise Lucas of Portsmouth, Marsh, and Linda "Toddy" Puller of Fairfax County.

    Its lone Republican is Sen. Fred Quayle of Suffolk, who expressed some confusion about how the subcommittee will function, but not its composition.

    "Obviously, the committee is slotted to people who generally are opposed to gun measures," he observed.

    Philip Van Cleave of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League was more blunt in his assessment.

    He dubbed it the "death star" subcommittee and labeled Marsh a "gun-hater" Monday in an e-mail denouncing the change.

    "The anti-gun Democrats who control the Virginia Senate know that in the end they are outnumbered," Van Cleave wrote in another e-mail. "So they are left to playing games with our Constitutionally protected rights. While that is unconscionable, sadly it is not surprising."

    [ Join the conversation: Readers are commenting about the latest gun bill developments on Dan Casey's blog ]

    Among the legislation being routed to the subcommittee is a House bill that would repeal the state's limit of one handgun purchase per month, several legislators said.

    Gov. Bob McDonnell, who previously supported the one gun a month policy, has said he would sign legislation repealing it if it reaches his desk.

    The new Courts of Justice subcommittee is scheduled to meet Thursday.

    Before it was established, however, several gun rights bills passed the Senate this year.

    Among those already approved are a measure to allow individuals to carry concealed handguns in restaurants that serve alcohol so long as they don't drink, and one that would permit people to keep concealed handguns in their vehicles if stored in a locked container.

    Both could be voted on by the Republican-controlled House this week.

    In the past, Marsh has unsuccessfully advocated for closing the so-called gun show loophole by requiring criminal background checks on buyers before a private gun sale can be completed.

    -- Julian Walker, The (Norfolk) Virginian-Pilot
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    A new way to be dirty. I hope they can't wash it off come election time.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    This won't help them if the Democrats lose control of the Senate...

    Hint, hint.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  9. #9
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
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    GWRedDragon,
    My blood is boiling. The special election in Fairfax was won by the Democrat by 37 votes, 50.13% to 49.80%. Nobody gets it. Heck, if the Dems dropped trying to limit the rights of free people--the greatest resource in the history of the planet--and just let this issue slide and worry about other issues, I'd consider voting for them. Right now I can't even get past straight-party voting. I don't know to just give up, or grab the torches and pitchforks.

  10. #10
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by titleist View Post
    GWRedDragon,
    My blood is boiling. The special election in Fairfax was won by the Democrat by 37 votes, 50.13% to 49.80%. Nobody gets it.
    Yep! Surely there were 43 gun owners in the District who stayed home who could have gotten off the couch -- had they care enough to do something rather than leave it up to the other guy!

    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  11. #11
    Member Array Kyle18's Avatar
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    I feel for you folks there. It's a slow process but eventually we will be like United Kingdom. Hopefully by uniting, be it VA. or CA., we can slow the process. Good luck on your next election.

    Stay safe-
    Be responsible for your own actions.
    ---
    http://www.calguns.net/

  12. #12
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    Not Yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle18 View Post
    I feel for you folks there. It's a slow process but eventually we will be like United Kingdom. Hopefully by uniting, be it VA. or CA., we can slow the process. Good luck on your next election.

    Stay safe-
    Don't know that I can agree, fully. Not yet, anyhow.

    To be sure, there are those who would have it that way and they might win, in the long run -- if we give up.

    However, for the last 15-20 years the tide has been going our way -- very slowly, too dang slowly. But for those of us that have been on the fight for a while, things have been getting better.

    Somewhere on this Forum is a link to an automated set of maps that shows the SSSLLLOOOWWW spread of "Must Carry." [Did a search and couldn't find it. So if somenoe has a link, please repost.]

    That said, we MUST NOT sit back on our laurels.

    The Anti-Freedom crowd isn't.

    However, OTOH, IMHO, they are not winning either, YET.

    I'm in my 70s and my worry is that the next generation is not picking up the baton in this race for our freedoms. Yes there a some -- Danladi Moore is a good example of a younger activist. However, for the most part, the visible face of the movement is too white, too male, too old.

    This is not a sprint. It will not be over and done in my lifetime -- nor, for that matter in the lifetime of the youngest member of this forum.

    It's a multi-generational relay w/o a finish line. Every generation need to run the good race, to stay/pull ahead.

    If we are losing, it is not in the courts, or the legislative bodies. It is in the classroom. It's in the disappearance of shooting opportunity for our youth. We lose them and you will be right.
    Last edited by DaveH; March 3rd, 2010 at 03:07 PM.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titleist View Post
    GWRedDragon,
    My blood is boiling. The special election in Fairfax was won by the Democrat by 37 votes, 50.13% to 49.80%. Nobody gets it. Heck, if the Dems dropped trying to limit the rights of free people--the greatest resource in the history of the planet--and just let this issue slide and worry about other issues, I'd consider voting for them. Right now I can't even get past straight-party voting. I don't know to just give up, or grab the torches and pitchforks.
    How do you think I feel here in Arlington, haha.

    I pretty much do not have representation. My 'representatives' would gladly institute a total ban on guns, SUVs, belching, rude behavior, voting Republican, or anything else if they were so allowed.

    I am thankful every day for the great people in other parts of the state that ensure that doesn't happen.

    To anyone who lives in 'real Virginia': THANK YOU.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  14. #14
    Member Array Kyle18's Avatar
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    DaveH, I agree with you on the "classroom" analysis. Both of our sons are career military and of course support the rights afforded the Constitution. Our youngest son was turned down for his Doctorate from the University here in CA. that he had graduated from years earlier, "because his military influence was not in standing with the values of the UC system..." The oldest son's daughter was a avid shooter until she started college in Colorado, now is fast becoming a "anti". The youngest son's, stepson who was pro-gun when he was in law enforcement here in Southern Cal now works for the CA Dept of Justice is now amoung the very rabid "anti's". I certainly hope you are correct and I am wrong. But with the likes of AB 962, the new ammo bill, it one step forward and three backward. In any case we must continue the fight, and I will as long as my old body and mind will let me.

    Respectfully
    Kyle
    Be responsible for your own actions.
    ---
    http://www.calguns.net/

  15. #15
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    A message from "real Virginia" to NOVA, Richmond, and Tidewater metro area

    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    How do you think I feel here in Arlington, haha.

    I pretty much do not have representation. My 'representatives' would gladly institute a total ban on guns, SUVs, belching, rude behavior, voting Republican, or anything else if they were so allowed.

    I am thankful every day for the great people in other parts of the state that ensure that doesn't happen.

    To anyone who lives in 'real Virginia': THANK YOU.
    From "real Virginia" to NOVA, Richmond, and Tidewater metro areas:

    It is becoming more and more your responsibility.

    It is likely that single counties in your area will have more elected representation than all of SWVA after this census or the next.

    Those are the hard facts.

    The people that live in your metro area are not going to listen to folk from Appalachia. If anyone is going to show them the folly of "Unarmed Victim Zones" (including whole States like MD) it has to be you (their neighbors, friends, & coworkers).

    I appreciate your thanks, very much. But what the State needs is workers in the trenches where you live.

    There is no way I could get 43 gun owners, who stayed home, to get off the couch and vote in Fairfax. Maybe, someone up there could have.

    Good luck. The future is in your hands, not those of us in the mountains.

    FWIIW -- I am not pessimistic. VCDLs origins were NOVA. Our greatest concentration of members are in the NOVA, Richmond, and Tidewater metro area. You can do it.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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