Virginia Members -- Action needed.

This is a discussion on Virginia Members -- Action needed. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From a VA-ALERT. VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) reference Philip Van ...

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Thread: Virginia Members -- Action needed.

  1. #1
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    Virginia Members -- Action needed.

    From a VA-ALERT.

    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    According to public statements in the newspaper, the Senate Courts of
    Justices "special" committee will "take care" of some gun bills that
    some Democratic Senators don't want to vote on for political reasons.

    If anti-gun Senator Marsh is hoping that the full committee can avoid
    a vote on bills from the subcommittee, he has a problem: the Senate
    Rules require that subcommittees report bills to the full committee:

    "20 (h). The Chair of any Committee may appoint subcommittees to
    consider a particular bill or resolution or to consider matters
    relative to a portion of the work of the Committee. Such subcommittees
    ***shall*** make recommendations to the Committee. The Chair of the
    full Committee shall be an ex officio member of all subcommittees and
    entitled to vote, but shall not be counted as a member for purposes of
    a quorum. All subcommittees shall be governed by the Rules of the
    Senate. "

    The House does allow subcommittees to kill bills, but the House Rules
    grants them that discretionary power:

    "Rule 18. The several standing committees shall consider and report on
    matters specially referred to them and, whenever practicable, suggest
    such legislation as may be germane to the duties of the committee. The
    chairman shall have discretion to determine when, and if, legislation
    shall be heard before the committee. The chairman, at his discretion,
    may refer legislation for consideration to a subcommittee. If referred
    to a subcommittee, the legislation shall be considered by the
    subcommittee. ***If the subcommittee does not recommend such
    legislation by a majority vote, the chairman need not consider the
    legislation in the full committee.*** It shall be the duty of each
    committee to inquire into the condition and administration of the laws
    relating to the subjects which it has in its charge; to investigate
    the conduct and look to the responsibility of all public officers and
    agents concerned; and to suggest such measures as will correct abuses,
    protect the public interests, and promote the public welfare."

    So, now the question we will soon have the answer to: will the Senate
    Courts of Justice committee and its Special subcommittee obey the
    Rules of the Senate or violate them?

    -

    Here are the links to the Senate and House Rules:

    Senate

    http://hodcap.state.va.us/publications/SenateRules.pdf

    House

    http://hodcap.state.va.us/publicatio...eRulesText.pdf


    ------

    ACTION ITEM

    Let's all contact the members of the Senate Courts of Justice
    Committee and urge them to make sure that the Senate's Rules are obeyed:

    Email address for the whole committee:

    scojc@vcdl.org


    Subject: Obey Senate Rules!


    Message:

    Senator Marsh stated in the Roanoke Times on Monday, March 1, that the
    Senate Courts of Justice Special Subcommittee could kill bills without
    the full committee taking a vote. The Senate's own rules are clear -
    20(h) states, "...Such subcommittees SHALL make recommendations to the
    Committee." (emphasis added)

    I urge the full committee to follow its own rules and its own history
    and vote on all the bills that are under consideration by the Special
    (or any other) Subcommittee.

    Ignoring the Senate's Rules will make a mockery out of the Senate and
    the Committee.

    --

    Let's Roll!
    As always feel free to personalize the message. dave
    Last edited by DaveH; March 3rd, 2010 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Corrected Email address
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Whoa, that's a really good catch. I wonder if anyone even noticed that part of the rules before now....probably not.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  4. #3
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    FYI -- Here's what I sent

    Senator Marsh stated in the Roanoke Times on Monday, March 1, that the Senate
    Courts of Justice Special Subcommittee could kill bills without the full
    committee taking a vote.

    However, the Senate's own rules are clear:

    20(h) states, "...Such subcommittees SHALL make recommendations to the
    Committee." (emphasis added)

    I urge the full committee to follow your own rules and your own history and
    vote on all the bills that are under consideration by the Special (or any
    other) Subcommittee.

    Ignoring the Senate's Rules will make a mockery out of the Senate and the
    Committee. It will also, open all members up to the "they violate their own
    rule and adopted the rule-of-men not the rule-of-law, in order to avoid
    representing their true position in their district's news coverage."

    Even newspaper, which support gun control have taken an Editorial position
    against the practice, in the House.
    See: No stacked committees - Roanoke.com

    "Editorial: No stacked committees

    [SNIP]
    Committees that reflect the composition of the House serve representative
    democracy far better than the old Democratic system.
    [SNIP]"

    Individual pro-gun control commentators have gone on record that it is wrong
    to use a personal "black hole" to avoid the democratic process in this way.
    Dan Casey, an ardent gun control advocate, did a relatively factual post on his
    blog with the penultimate paragraph actually supports our position and against
    this action.
    See:
    Guns-in-bars bill looks safe - other gun bills are in doubt | Dan Casey's blog: Roanoke Times metro columnist writes what's on his mind - Roanoke.com


    >>>
    "Guns-in-bars bill looks safe - other gun bills are in doubt

    Okay folks, I've moved off the bathroom beat (see Tuesday's column) and had a
    bit of time to analyze what happened Monday with the gun bills in the Senate's
    Courts of Justice Committee.
    It looks like the Senate is playing a bit of payback after similar actions by
    the House of Delegates, and that a bunch of the House gun bills are caught in
    that crossfire.

    Here's the background: For some time, going back years, the House has referred
    Senate bills to subcommittees where they have died in the waning days of the
    session, and the Senate has NOT done that until this year.

    Now the Senate is following the House's lead with subcommittees, and they're
    holding a bunch of House gun bills hostage on a subcommittee stacked with four
    anti-gun Democrats and a lone Republican senator.

    The likely result is that, absent some Richmond horse trading (the House puts
    Senate bills through in return for the Senate putting House bills through)
    some of the most sought-after legislation by the pro-gunners is going to go
    down to defeat.

    The subcommittee Democrats have safe seats that the gun crowd probably cannot
    successfully attack. So the move might also protect some other senators on the
    full committee from having to vote on the bills at all, and having to defend
    those votes next year in Senate elections.

    In other words, they are playing a big old game of legislative chess.

    BUT: concealed carry in bars is NOT one of the bills in that could die in this
    game. The Senate already has passed their own version of that. All the House
    needs to do is pass the Senate version unamended and send it to the governor,
    who will sign it.

    Here are some of the House gun bills that are looking increasingly doubtful:

    a.. HB 49, which repeals the one-gun a month handgun purchase limitation.
    Torpedoing this one is a biggie in the gun-control crowd.
    b.. HB 79, which bars Circuit Court clerks from releasing information as to
    whether someone holds a concealed carry permit -- even if they're a homicidal
    maniac multiple killer.
    c.. HB 236, which would bar localities from prohibiting hunting within a
    half-mile of a subdivision (which they can do now).
    d.. HB 69, which says firearms (such as machine guns) and ammo manufactured
    in Virginia would not be subject to federal law. I call this one the "Virginia
    is for Terrorists Act."
    And a bunch of others, which you can find here, although this list is not a
    complete one. Here is a complete, though harder to understand list.

    Now, there are some loud whines of "unfair" coming from the gun movement right
    now.

    Those are justified because disproportionately stacked subcommittees are
    wrong. But remember, the House bills may end up passing if the House gets
    serious about some Senate-bill hostage trading.

    You know what they say about law-making and sausage-making, right?"

    Please do the right thing and follow your rules.
    <<<
    Feel free to cut and paste or adapt any part.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  5. #4
    VIP Member
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    Error fixed -- the HOLD is off

    *****
    UPDATE
    *****

    From a VA-ALERT.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    I had missed one letter in the email address. :-(

    Here is the email information again, with corrected email address
    (sorry):


    ACTION ITEM

    Let's all contact the members of the Senate Courts of Justice
    Committee and urge them to make sure that the Senate's Rules are obeyed:

    Email address for the whole committee:

    scojc@vcdl.org
    SNIP
    Last edited by DaveH; March 3rd, 2010 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Update
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Here are the 2 replies I have gotten so far. Notice they are radically different:

    1:

    Thank you for writing me about the creation of a special subcommittee
    within the Senate Committee on Courts of Justice to hear gun-related
    legislation from the House, along with a few other miscellaneous
    bills. Like you, I was dismayed by the decision of the chair to create
    a special subcommittee to hear these bills with the understanding that
    bills not receiving a favorable report from the subcommittee will not
    be heard in full committee.

    In the past, the Senate has always taken up bills in full committee
    regardless of the vote in subcommittee, and I believe that these
    bills, too, deserve a full hearing in committee. A number of the bills
    relegated to the special subcommittee have Senate companion bills that
    have already passed; a few others certainly would report out of
    committee with a favorable recommendation were they put to a vote.

    As a strong proponent of the constitutional right to bear arms, I have
    voted consistently in favor of pro-gun legislation. I am proud of my
    record on the Second Amendment, and looked forward to supporting many
    of the bills now languishing in the special subcommittee.
    Unfortunately, I may not have that opportunity, but I appreciate your
    email, and will certainly continue to advocate for a fair hearing for
    these bills.


    With best regards,
    Mark D. Obenshain
    Virginia State Senator

    2.

    Thank you so much for your e-mail. We appreciate your correspondence.
    Legislative Assistant
    District 34
    Senate of Virginia
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    I would expect nothing less from Senator Obenshain. I would expect nothing more from Senator Petersen.
    - Tom
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