VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills

This is a discussion on VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Looks like it'll be imperative to get rid of the Democrats in the VA legislature this upcoming election, or else they'll stop everything from coming ...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    750
    Looks like it'll be imperative to get rid of the Democrats in the VA legislature this upcoming election, or else they'll stop everything from coming to a vote.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Thumbs down The fat lady is about to sing...

    on Monday (the last meeting of the Full Committee scheduled this session) unless (and that is a BIG unless) Marsh folds to the mounting pressure and actually follows the rules. My bet is that he will opt for the rule-of-men and not support the rule of law.
    BTW -- In another thread Rob P said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    Actually it is NOT "legal." WE have a federal constitutional right to petition our government for redress of grievances. That government CANNOT refuse to hear our petition.
    ....
    Please note the following from below:

    HOWEVER, this bill did NOT get a fair hearing as promised by Marsh. They let one anti-self-defense person talk, but cut off the comments the second I [Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL] stepped to the microphone. I was not allowed one single word on that bill nor was anyone else who supported it!
    FWIIW, this is not unique at these hearings. At various times (particularly the year after the shooting at Va Tech) Pro-RKBA speakers are/were denied time, or put last in line only to see many of the Committee Members leave and after the Pro speakers finish the Chair "discovers" there is not a forum and the vote will be delayed. The Anties (both Members and the public can interrupt the Pro-RKBA speakers, heckle them, laugh, etc with out resulting sanction. OTOH, were a Pro-RKBA Committee Members to even try to raise a question he will be called out-of-order and were a public witness/audience to even chuckle of cough at the "wrong" time he could be escorted out of the chamber. [see comments below about the high level of LEO at this meeting.]

    More from a VA-ALERT.

    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc. and PVC) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]

    The Ides of Marsh - cold-blooded murder of some excellent pro-freedom
    bills by a Kangaroo subcommittee

    As expected almost any gun bill that either hadn't already passed the
    Senate in a matching bill, or that was relatively minor, was given a
    vote to be "Passed By Indefinitely" (PBI) by the anti-freedom packed
    subcommittee.

    There was an unusually high Capitol Police presence. I guess Marsh
    was worried that the hot tempered antis might cause trouble, but they
    behaved themselves. ;-)

    A few bills did get passed out (in order of significance):

    HB 1191, Delegate Griffith, allows a Circuit Court Clerk to be able to
    issue CHPs as long as the judge is OK with it and there are no
    problems with the application. This bill should speed up the issuance
    of CHPs in some localities

    HB 109, Delegate Cole, removes an unused, but egregious law that
    allows counties to tax and register handguns when sold by a dealer in
    that county. No counties are doing this, but the fact that they could
    is a problem

    HB 1092, Delegate Crockett-Stark, allows retired law-enforcement
    officers to carry everywhere they go

    HB 505, Delegate Gilbert, restaurant ban repeal was conformed to the
    Senate version of that bill (SB 334). The fact that HB 505 passed out
    of subcommittee is really irrelevant since SB 334 is going to be
    signed into law anyway

    HB 885, Delegate Athey, allows a non-CHP holder to have a gun secured
    in a container or compartment in a vehicle or vessel. It was
    conformed to the version that passed the Senate (SB 408), making it a
    LOCKED container or compartment, and passed out. Again, this bill was
    irrelevant since SB 408 is already on its way to the Governor's desk.


    And many were voted down:

    HB 171, Delegate Pogge, allows someone to be able to keep a gun in
    their locked vehicle on private property, prohibiting employers or
    landlords from banning such guns. The bill died by 5 to 0, with even
    Senator Quayle voting against it.

    Those of you who use COMCAST might want to consider calling them to
    CANCEL your service. Comcast had a representative there to speak
    against your Constitutional right to self-defense by opposing HB 171.
    Gun owners should not reward such behavior by remaining loyal
    customers. And if you do cancel, be sure to tell them why.

    HB 79, Delegate Ware, prohibits Circuit Courts from giving our CHP
    applicant information. Only Senator Quayle voted for it. HOWEVER,
    this bill did NOT get a fair hearing as promised by Marsh. They let
    one anti-self-defense person talk, but cut off the comments the second
    I stepped to the microphone. I was not allowed one single word on
    that bill nor was anyone else who supported it!

    HB 49, Delegate Lingamfelter, repeals one handgun a month. Only
    Quayle voted for it. Lingamfelter did a superb job in presenting his
    bill

    HB 1070, Delegate Athey, allows CHP holders to carry in an emergency
    shelter. There was an amendment to add a "battered woman's shelter"
    exception before the bill was killed by a 4 to 1 vote. Yeah, let's
    disarm a woman whose husband in coming to the shelter to kill her -
    brilliant

    HB 236, Delegate Janis, allows someone to shoot within one-half mile
    of a subdivision if they do so safely

    HB 108, Delegate Cole, requires localities which have gun buy-ups to
    auction such guns to dealers. As an ex-law enforcement officer I am
    embarrassed by some of the baloney spouted by uniformed officers on
    this bill. They were either lying or ignorant. One after the other
    they said this would "put guns back on the streets." WRONG - the bill
    required that only dealers could bid on such guns, meaning the guns
    would only be sold to the public after the buyer has passed the NICS
    background check. They acted like the bill required the guns to be
    sold in a dark alley to a drug dealer. The police also said how they
    wanted to destroy those guns. Perhaps they should start by destroying
    those on their own hips first, since they don't see the importance of
    self-defense. The purpose of law enforcement is not to lobby against
    a citizen's right to self-defense, to own guns, to carry guns, or to
    buy guns. Those officers were a disgrace to their badges and the
    public trust

    HB 490, Delegate Lingamfelter, directs the State Police to put
    together a plan for lifetime CHPs. Marsh complained that the State
    Police didn't have the personnel to work on such a thing with the
    budget crunch, Lingamfelter said they had plenty of resources to do
    such a project. Funny, when the One Handgun a Month repeal came up, I
    told the committee by passing that bill the State Police could save a
    lot of money as they would no longer have to waste their time tracking
    the number of guns a person purchased. Suddenly Marsh wasn't
    concerned about the budget of the State Police, as he then voted to
    kill that bill. Once again the antis prove that logic isn't their
    strong suit.

    --

    The real puppet strings are being pulled by Senate Majority Leader -
    Senator Saslaw in conjunction with Senator Marsh. In the Washington
    Post Saslaw admitted that this whole death star committee was a
    childish attempt to "get even" with the House for their subcommittees:

    "Va. Senate panel kills House bill that would have repealed gun
    purchase limit"
    Virginia Politics Blog - Va. Senate panel kills House bill that would have repealed gun purchase limit

    [SNIP]
    Majority Leader Richard L. Saslaw (D-Fairfax) on Wednesday was not shy
    about saying that a special subcommittee in the Senate Courts of
    Justice would effectively serve as an elephant graveyard to bury a
    host of gun-related bills passed by the Republican-controlled House.

    Saslaw also acknowledged that the subcommittee was a FORM OF REVENGE
    against its counterpart in the state Capitol and would kill several
    bills passed by the entire House just as House subcommittees have
    killed bills adopted by the entire Senate.

    "We're going to do just like the House did," Saslaw said. ***"If it's
    good enough for them, it's good enough for us."*** [PVC: So the ends
    justifies the means? Just trample the Rules of the Senate?]

    Lawmakers from both parties and both the House and Senate criticized
    the escalating tit-for-tat skirmishing by which committees composed of
    a handful of lawmakers in one chamber can kill bills passed by large
    majorities on the other side of the Capitol. ''

    --

    BTW, the Governor, to his credit, has been very public in his
    criticism of BOTH Houses for letting subcommittees kill bills:

    McDonnell criticizes 'kill bill' subcommittees; Senate panel could spike gun bills today | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    --

    On Monday at 9 AM the full Senate Courts of Justice Committee will
    meet and we will see if they will violate their own rules and not hear
    the bills that the subcommittee said should be killed.
    Last edited by DaveH; March 6th, 2010 at 08:34 AM. Reason: spacing & sp ck road kill
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  4. #18
    Member Array Tint Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sussex UK
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    In the pathology that is American Liberalism, the ends ALWAYS justify the means. American Liberals have no shame, no sense of irony, and no regard for dissent (which, according to them, is 'patriotic,' but only when it's not directed at them). Hypocrisy, thy Name Is DNC.

    I used to think progressives were too stupid to see their own hypocrisy, but now I know better. They know exactly what they're doing, and they just don't care. I liked it better when I could blame their ignorance. Now I have to confront their willful shiftiness. Tougher problem.
    I think you will find they have been taking lessons from the scum called the labour party, who sadly run this country.........Hopefully on May 6th this year, the British will vote them back to the cave they came from!!

    Tint Bob (UK)
    Last edited by Tint Bob; March 6th, 2010 at 04:42 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #19
    Member Array JohnWFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    303
    I always have said that local and state elections are more important to follow and vote for than national ones. If you vote in "pro" gun representatives, the negative gun votes go away.......
    "A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Richmond VA
    Posts
    1,068
    True, unless the representatives are safely ensconced in the few safely progressive, anti-gun districts in the state, as is the case with these Senators. They can apparently screw the entire state safe in the knowledge that they won't be voted out. There is no mechanism for us to stop it.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  7. #21
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    459
    Well I had some high hopes that some of the good guys in full committee would be able to add this to the docket in accordance with the Rules of the Senate... Here is a response from Senator Obenshain about what happened yesterday. Words got jumbled together in the translation, but this is my computer, not his typing.

    Dear Mr. Titleist,
    Thank you for your email regarding the “special subcommittee” withinthe Senate Committee on Courts of Justice. Yesterday morning, when theCourts of Justice Committee met, I made a motion to add to the docketone of the bills that Senate Democrats bottled up in subcommittee - HB79. This particular bill is one that treats as confidential the namesand personal information of those holding concealed carry permits. Youmay remember the incident that prompted the measure: two years ago,the Roanoke Times obtained and printed the names of permit holders. Tomany, this was an outrageous violation of privacy rights.

    In response to my motion, the chair simply ruled that the bill was noton the docket - thus my motion to add it. I explained again that mymotion was to add the bill to the agenda, and the motion was promptlyseconded by Senator Robert Hurt. At that point, the Senate MajorityLeader ruled my motion out of order -- even though he is not chairmanof the committee -- claiming that there was no such motion as the oneI had made. He is incorrect on this, so I then appealed the ruling ofthe chair. The means for resolving such an appeal is by vote of thefull committee, which is in essence a vote on the merits of the bill.The appeal was overruled on a vote of 12-3 (Obenshain, McDougle andHurt).

    I then made a motion to add another bill to the agenda, HB 69, a bill that declares that firearms, firearm accessories, and ammunition that are manufactured commercially or privately in Virginia, and thatremain within the borders of Virginia, shall not be subject to federallaw or federal regulation, including registration, under the authorityof the United States Congress to regulate interstate commerce. The motion was seconded, however, this time, the Chairman refused to even acknowledge that a motion had been made and moved on with the businessof the Committee. With at least ten votes at his disposal, I cannot fathom why the Chairman would not want to entertain votes on thesetwelve bills.

    Thank you again for your email. I regret that I do not have a moreoptimistic report to share with you, but I hope that you will nothesitate to contact me with any further questions or concerns that you may have

    With best regards,
    Mark D. Obenshain
    Virginia State Senator

  8. #22
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    I received two emails from VA State Sen John Miller. Here's the first:

    XXXX:
    I received your e-mail asking me to support HB 171 which provides that no person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business owner may prohibit a person who lawfully possesses a firearm from storing that firearm in a locked motor vehicle.

    This bill was assigned to a subcommittee of the Senate Committee for Courts of Justice. The subcommittee decided not to act on the legislation and I do not expect the bill to come before the Senate this year, so I will not have an opportunity to vote on it.

    Thanks for letting me know how you feel on this important issue. Please
    continue to keep in touch.
    Senator John Miller


    I love the vague, "so I will not have an opportunity to vote on it." He sent me an identical one regarding HB 1070.

    My reply:

    Senator Miller,

    Thank you for the reply. I assume you're referring to Senator Marsh's ridiculous subcommittee. Based on your previous votes, I'll conclude you would vote against HB 171 and HB 1070. I will vote accordingly when you're up for reelection. Thank you again for your reply.

    XXXXXXXX
    Yorktown, VA

  9. #23
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    459
    You know the saying... In Virginia, we don't hire challengers, we fire incumbents.

    It's nice that Obenshain recognizes and voices the err in what's happening, and feels strongly about people crapping on the Constitution of Virginia.

  10. #24
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    Apparently, I've gotten under Senator Miller's skin. I've received two rather snippy emails claiming he actually supports gun rights and there's no way I could know how he'd actually vote if he HAD to.

    I keep replying and am unfailingly polite. I find it humorous how informal and defensive he's being.

  11. #25
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Letter Finally Printed in Roanoke Times, but

    ...way too late to help this session.

    http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/letters/wb/239574

    Why not condemn Marsh?

    So far, you have run fairly bland news stories about Sen. Henry Marsh's, Democratic-stacked subcommittee and his assertion that he wouldn't put the bills on the full committee's docket when it held its final scheduled meeting.

    However, what is your editorial position on this issue? How do you view it in light of your Nov. 27 "No stacked committees," which included, "Committees that reflect the composition of the House serve representative democracy far better than the old Democratic system."

    In the penultimate paragraph of a post that Dan Casey put on his blog, he, to his credit, actually condemned Marsh's action: "Now, there are some loud whines of 'unfair' coming from the gun movement right now. Those are justified because disproportionately stacked subcommittees are wrong."

    Why have you not condemned Marsh's action at the editorial level? Ignoring the Senate's rules makes a mockery of the Senate and the committee. Does The Roanoke Times approve of them violating their own rule and adopting the "rule-of-men" not the "rule-of-law"? Does your agreement with Marsh's ends overshadow your disagreement with his means?

    DAVE HICKS
    DUBLIN
    Followed by:

    Editor's note: A Feb. 27 Short take, "Vengeance is ours, says Virginia's Senate," published prior to Marsh's action, criticized the practice, though not the results, after a Senate subcommittee killed two other, unrelated bills.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    Apparently, I've gotten under Senator Miller's skin. I've received two rather snippy emails claiming he actually supports gun rights and there's no way I could know how he'd actually vote if he HAD to.

    I keep replying and am unfailingly polite. I find it humorous how informal and defensive he's being.
    Post them... Nothing like outing idiots so they can show their own true colors.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    More from a VA-ALERT.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    Lt. Governor Bill Bolling confirms that Senators Saslaw and Marsh
    broke the rules of the Senate. And, worse, they will get away with it.

    What hypocrisy. THEY break the rules, but expect US to obey them!

    That is intolerable. The Virginia Senate needs new leadership. Period.

    Unless the Senate votes in some new leadership, the elections of 2011
    is where gun owners and other like minded Virginians will fix the
    problem.

    The anger at what Saslaw and Marsh did to betray the public's trust is
    palpable. Not since the Roanoke Times published the list of CHP
    holders have I seen this many furious emails!

    With many Democrats already looking nervously over their shoulders as
    election day draws ever nearer, this move by the Senate Leadership is
    a form of political Darwinism for their Party - pouring gasoline on a
    fire.

    That's too bad, as there are some very good pro-gun Democratic
    Senators who are being dragged down a path they probably would not go
    down on their own. But, they chose their leaders and, clearly, chose
    poorly.

    For us, let's not get angry - that accomplishes nothing. Instead
    let's channel that energy into fixing the Senate.

    Saslaw and Marsh have just awoken a sleeping giant who will make the
    Senate Leadership's treachery a rallying cry. We will come out as a
    huge voting block to remind the Senate Leadership that they serve at
    OUR pleasure. And we expect WHOEVER is in leadership to obey the
    rules and to honor and protect our right to self--defense.

    Here is Freddie Kunkle's article in the Washington Post:

    Virginia Politics Blog - Lt. Gov. Bolling: Anti-gun bill panel creation broke Senate rules

    Virginia Politics Blog - Lt. Gov. Bolling: Anti-gun bill panel creation broke Senate rules

    Lt. Gov. Bolling: Anti-gun bill panel creation broke Senate rules
    Yes, Democratic leaders in Virginia's Senate broke the rules when they
    killed a bunch of gun rights bills in a specially formed subcommittee.
    And, no, there's not a thing anybody can do about it.

    That's the upshot of a ruling that came down Friday from Lt. Gov. Bill
    Bolling (R), who is president of the Senate.

    The controversy began when Senate Majority Leader Richard Saslaw
    (D-Fairfax) and Courts of Justice Chairman Henry Marsh (D-Richmond)
    created a special subcommittee to consider several gun bills passed by
    the Republican-controlled House, including an attempt to repeal
    Virginia's ban on buying more than one handgun a month.

    Almost all of the gun bills, except those that were similar to
    measures adopted by the Senate, died there last week on party-line
    votes. Among the dead was Del. Scott Lingamfelter's (R-Prince William)
    closely watched attempt to repeal the gun-a-month law.

    Some gun-control advocates praised the end if not the means. Others
    criticized Senate leaders only for not thinking of the idea sooner.
    But gun-rights supporters derided the Courts of Justice special
    subcommittee as "the death star" committee and accused the Senate
    leadership of acting like autocrats.

    Other newly created subcommittees killed other unwanted House bills
    too, including one that would have protected Virginians from
    involuntary microchip implantation -- a measure derided by critics as
    the "mark of the Beast" bill.

    Saslaw wasn't shy about the purpose of the Courts of Justice special
    subcommittee, which was stacked with four Democratic senators and one
    moderate Republican. Saslaw said in interviews that the
    Democratic-controlled Senate was merely engaging in a little payback
    after years of watching bills roll out with significant majorities
    only to die at the hands of a few delegates on subcommittees in the
    Republican-controlled House.

    On Thursday, Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester) tried to revive a
    gun-rights measure--shielding public access to the list of concealed
    weapon permit holders--by amending another gun-related bill on the
    floor of the Senate. She withdrew the amendment eventually, but not
    before criticizing the handiwork of the newly invented subcommittees
    and their propriety.

    Enter Bolling.

    His March 12 memo, citing Rule 20 (h), says:

    "Accordingly, and based on my objective interpretation of the Rules of
    the Senate, it is my belief that Senate subcommittees do not have the
    authority to take final action on any bill or resolution referred to
    them. The subcommittee can consider such bills and resolutions, but
    ultimately, the subcommitee is only empowered to make recommendations
    to the full Committee. The ultimate authority of taking final action
    on such bills and resolutions rests solely with the full committee."

    Bolling's memo also points out that, unlike the Senate, the House's
    rules specifically grant subcommittees the authority to take final
    action on bills.

    Bolling spokeswoman Ibbie Hedrick said the memo cannot force
    compliance of the rules. "It's just his opinion on the matter," she
    said.

    But Bolling's memo also included a genteel reminder to the senators to
    play nice:

    "As you know, the Senate has long prided itself on compliance with the
    Rules and traditions of the Senate. It is important that the Rules and
    traditions of the Senate be complied with when they advance members
    ultimate goals and objectives, and even when they do not."

    -- Fredrick Kunkle



    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Hit this poll...VA Subcommittee question
    By Holger in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 5th, 2010, 06:55 PM
  2. Winchester Silvertip HP 38 Special vs 38 Special +P
    By magictag in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: May 13th, 2009, 12:17 PM
  3. Man kills 4 at gathering in Miami, then kills self
    By Jumper2501 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 15th, 2009, 02:46 PM
  4. J-frame S&W Airlight 44 Special vs 38 Special vs .357 Mag
    By Thanis in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 27th, 2008, 05:39 PM
  5. Deputy facing manslaughter kills self. Brother kills self/gf too.
    By socuban in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: May 2nd, 2008, 07:37 PM

Search tags for this page

virginia hb 171 on ?firearms in locked vehicles senates rejects

Click on a term to search for related topics.