VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills

This is a discussion on VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Just saw this, no update on votes on VA's webpage nor VCDL. More updates to follow. The Roanoke Times © March 4, 2010 By Michael ...

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Thread: VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills

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    VA: Special Subcommittee kills the bills

    Just saw this, no update on votes on VA's webpage nor VCDL. More updates to follow.

    The Roanoke Times
    © March 4, 2010
    By Michael Sluss

    RICHMOND

    A Senate subcommittee has voted down legislation that would repeal Virginia’s law limiting handgun purchases to one per month.

    The Democrat-dominated Senate panel - hastily created this week - voted 4-1 to defeat the legislation, which passed the House of Delegates last month. The panel also voted down other bills designed to expand gun rights.

    Senate Courts of Justice Committee Chairman Henry Marsh, D-Richmond, sent the gun bills to the newly formed special subcommittee rather then bring them before the full committee, where the measures could have picked up support from pro-gun Democrats.

    Virginia's limit on handgun purchases was passed in 1993. Lawmakers since have approved multiple exceptions to the law.

    Despite the Senate subcommittee's efforts, bills that would ease restrictions on guns in bars and in cars are already headed to the desk of Gov. Bob McDonnell.

    The House of Delegates passed a bill that would allow customers with permits to have concealed handguns in restaurants and other establishments that serve alcohol. Gun-carrying patrons could face a misdemeanor charge if they consume alcohol.

    The legislation, SB334, already had passed the Senate. The bill now goes to McDonnell, who has said he would sign the measure. Former Gov. Timothy M. Kaine vetoed similar bills.

    The Republican-controlled House also passed a Senate-sponsored bill, SB408, that would allow gun owners without concealed-carry permits to store firearms in locked vehicle compartments, another measure that met with Kaine's veto.

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  3. #2
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    And from NBC:

    Virginia Democrats Kill Gun Bills
    Posted: Mar 04, 2010 4:57 PM EST
    Updated: Mar 04, 2010 4:57 PM EST
    Senate Democrats have killed a long list of bills that would have loosened Virginia's gun laws. The Democrats sent the bills to a special subcommittee which tabled the issues for the year.

    Among them is a measure that would have eliminated Virginia's one handgun a month law that measure passed in 1993. Supporters of repealing the law say the measure is no longer needed.

    Delegate Scott Lingamfelter (R) 31st District says, "The technology to verify that a felon was not attempting to purchase a handgun was not nearly as developed and accurate as it is today."

    Gun control advocate Alice Mountjoy says, "This really was an attempt for public safety to take a look at our notoriety as the number one gun running state."

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    I read someplace that the committe was specially created to kill these bills and was made up of all anti gun dems. I would say if your from Va. to vote them out of office.
    Kansas Concealed Carry Website

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    Quote Originally Posted by doctruptwn View Post
    I read someplace that the committe was specially created to kill these bills and was made up of all anti gun dems. I would say if your from Va. to vote them out of office.
    4 anti-gun Dems and a RINO. Unfortunately, they are safely ensconced in some of the strongest anti-gun districts in the state (two of the five being from the least gun-friendly county in the state) where they can safely vote against expanding freedom without suffering at the polls. Their constituents won't remove them for this, but these Senators will inflict their personal bias on the entire state.
    - Tom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357 View Post
    4 anti-gun Dems and a RINO. Unfortunately, they are safely ensconced in some of the strongest anti-gun districts in the state (two of the five being from the least gun-friendly county in the state) where they can safely vote against expanding freedom without suffering at the polls. Their constituents won't remove them for this, but these Senators will inflict their personal bias on the entire state.
    Marsh knew that when he assigned the subcommittee. This is a sham, and I'm pretty sure this is going to come back to bite the Democrats in VA, somehow, someway. If the voters don't take care of it, hopefully the GOP in Richmond will. Payback for sneaky tricks is a *****.

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    The Dems only need to lose 3 (I believe) state senate seats to lose control of the senante and then they won't be able to stack the committees.
    pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's

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    This is simply unacceptable.

    The Dems in DC want to have a floor vote in the Senate, the Dems in Richmond want to do everything they can to avoid a real vote in the Senate.

    Interesting. They're talking out of both sides of their mouth...
    Springfield XD45 4" 13+1

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    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    This is simply unacceptable.

    The Dems in DC want to have a floor vote in the Senate, the Dems in Richmond want to do everything they can to avoid a real vote in the Senate.

    Interesting. They're talking out of both sides of their mouth...
    In the pathology that is American Liberalism, the ends ALWAYS justify the means. American Liberals have no shame, no sense of irony, and no regard for dissent (which, according to them, is 'patriotic,' but only when it's not directed at them). Hypocrisy, thy Name Is DNC.

    I used to think progressives were too stupid to see their own hypocrisy, but now I know better. They know exactly what they're doing, and they just don't care. I liked it better when I could blame their ignorance. Now I have to confront their willful shiftiness. Tougher problem.

  11. #10
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    More

    More from a VA-ALERT.

    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc. and PVC) reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]

    As expected almost any gun bill that either hadn't already passed the
    Senate in a matching bill, or that was relatively minor, was given a
    vote to be "Passed By Indefinitely" (PBI) by the anti-freedom packed
    subcommittee.

    There was an unusually high Capitol Police presence. I guess Marsh
    was worried that the hot tempered antis might cause trouble, but they
    behaved themselves. ;-)

    A few bills did get passed out (in order of significance):

    HB 1191, Delegate Griffith, allows a Circuit Court Clerk to be able to
    issue CHPs as long as the judge is OK with it and there are no
    problems with the application. This bill should speed up the issuance
    of CHPs in some localities

    HB 109, Delegate Cole, removes an unused, but egregious law that
    allows counties to tax and register handguns when sold by a dealer in
    that county. No counties are doing this, but the fact that they could
    is a problem

    HB 1092, Delegate Crockett-Stark, allows retired law-enforcement
    officers to carry everywhere they go

    HB 505, Delegate Gilbert, restaurant ban repeal was conformed to the
    Senate version of that bill (SB 334). The fact that HB 505 passed out
    of subcommittee is really irrelevant since SB 334 is going to be
    signed into law anyway

    HB 885, Delegate Athey, allows a non-CHP holder to have a gun secured
    in a container or compartment in a vehicle or vessel. It was
    conformed to the version that passed the Senate (SB 408), making it a
    LOCKED container or compartment, and passed out. Again, this bill was
    irrelevant since SB 408 is already on its way to the Governor's desk.


    And many were voted down:

    HB 171, Delegate Pogge, allows someone to be able to keep a gun in
    their locked vehicle on private property, prohibiting employers or
    landlords from banning such guns. The bill died by 5 to 0, with even
    Senator Quayle voting against it.

    Those of you who use COMCAST might want to consider calling them to
    CANCEL your service. Comcast had a representative there to speak
    against your Constitutional right to self-defense by opposing HB 171.
    Gun owners should not reward such behavior by remaining loyal
    customers. And if you do cancel, be sure to tell them why.

    HB 79, Delegate Ware, prohibits Circuit Courts from giving our CHP
    applicant information. Only Senator Quayle voted for it. HOWEVER,
    this bill did NOT get a fair hearing as promised by Marsh. They let
    one anti-self-defense person talk, but cut off the comments the second
    I stepped to the microphone. I was not allowed one single word on
    that bill nor was anyone else who supported it!

    HB 49, Delegate Lingamfelter, repeals one handgun a month. Only
    Quayle voted for it. Lingamfelter did a superb job in presenting his
    bill

    HB 1070, Delegate Athey, allows CHP holders to carry in an emergency
    shelter. There was an amendment to add a "battered woman's shelter"
    exception before the bill was killed by a 4 to 1 vote. Yeah, let's
    disarm a woman whose husband in coming to the shelter to kill her -
    brilliant

    HB 236, Delegate Janis, allows someone to shoot within one-half mile
    of a subdivision if they do so safely

    HB 108, Delegate Cole, requires localities which have gun buy-ups to
    auction such guns to dealers. As an ex-law enforcement officer I am
    embarrassed by some of the baloney spouted by uniformed officers on
    this bill. They were either lying or ignorant. One after the other
    they said this would "put guns back on the streets." WRONG - the bill
    required that only dealers could bid on such guns, meaning the guns
    would only be sold to the public after the buyer has passed the NICS
    background check. They acted like the bill required the guns to be
    sold in a dark alley to a drug dealer. The police also said how they
    wanted to destroy those guns. Perhaps they should start by destroying
    those on their own hips first, since they don't see the importance of
    self-defense. The purpose of law enforcement is not to lobby against
    a citizen's right to self-defense, to own guns, to carry guns, or to
    buy guns. Those officers were a disgrace to their badges and the
    public trust

    HB 490, Delegate Lingamfelter, directs the State Police to put
    together a plan for lifetime CHPs. Marsh complained that the State
    Police didn't have the personnel to work on such a thing with the
    budget crunch, Lingamfelter said they had plenty of resources to do
    such a project. Funny, when the One Handgun a Month repeal came up, I
    told the committee by passing that bill the State Police could save a
    lot of money as they would no longer have to waste their time tracking
    the number of guns a person purchased. Suddenly Marsh wasn't
    concerned about the budget of the State Police, as he then voted to
    kill that bill. Once again the antis prove that logic isn't their
    strong suit.

    --

    The real puppet strings are being pulled by Senate Majority Leader -
    Senator Saslaw in conjunction with Senator Marsh. In the Washington
    Post Saslaw admitted that this whole death star committee was a
    childish attempt to "get even" with the House for their subcommittees:

    "Va. Senate panel kills House bill that would have repealed gun
    purchase limit"
    Virginia Politics Blog - Va. Senate panel kills House bill that would have repealed gun purchase limit

    [SNIP]
    Majority Leader Richard L. Saslaw (D-Fairfax) on Wednesday was not shy
    about saying that a special subcommittee in the Senate Courts of
    Justice would effectively serve as an elephant graveyard to bury a
    host of gun-related bills passed by the Republican-controlled House.

    Saslaw also acknowledged that the subcommittee was a FORM OF REVENGE
    against its counterpart in the state Capitol and would kill several
    bills passed by the entire House just as House subcommittees have
    killed bills adopted by the entire Senate.

    "We're going to do just like the House did," Saslaw said. ***"If it's
    good enough for them, it's good enough for us."*** [PVC: So the ends
    justifies the means? Just trample the Rules of the Senate?]

    Lawmakers from both parties and both the House and Senate criticized
    the escalating tit-for-tat skirmishing by which committees composed of
    a handful of lawmakers in one chamber can kill bills passed by large
    majorities on the other side of the Capitol. ''

    --

    BTW, the Governor, to his credit, has been very public in his
    criticism of BOTH Houses for letting subcommittees kill bills:

    McDonnell criticizes &#39kill bill&#39 subcommittees; Senate panel could spike gun bills today | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    --

    On Monday at 9 AM the full Senate Courts of Justice Committee will
    meet and we will see if they will violate their own rules and not hear
    the bills that the subcommittee said should be killed.
    Maybe, just maybe we can get a recorded vote to take into the elections, even is the whole committee does take action to violate their own rules and not hear or vote on the bills that the subcommittee said should be killed.

    Calls and emails requesting a recorded vote might help.
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    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    From Roanoke Times

    Senate subcommittee votes down handgun bill - Roanoke.com

    RICHMOND -- A hastily formed Senate subcommittee voted Thursday to defeat legislation that would repeal Virginia's one-handgun-per-month law, likely killing the proposal for the year.

    The Democrat-dominated panel took the extraordinary step of voting down several pro-gun bills that had been passed by the Republican-run House of Delegates, keeping the bills from getting a hearing in the full Senate Courts of Justice Committee. The committee's chairman, Sen. Henry Marsh, D-Richmond, said he won't put the bills on the full committee's docket when it holds its final scheduled meeting Monday.

    Marsh appointed the five-member subcommittee just Monday, stacking it with Democrats who favor gun control. Marsh said he formed the panel because the full committee already had devoted significant time to gun legislation this year.

    Republicans and gun rights advocates said Marsh's move was an end run around the full Courts of Justice Committee, where bills could have picked up support from pro-gun Democrats.

    "I think in my alert I will call this The Ides of Marsh," said Philip Van Cleave, the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, musing about the headline he would put on his electronic newsletter.

    While Marsh declared the rejected bills dead Thursday, one Republican senator did not rule out making an effort to revive them in the full committee.

    "I don't think it's the end of the road for these bills," said Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Harrisonburg.

    Senate subcommittees typically don't kill legislation and merely make recommendations to full committees. Senators have grumbled about established House of Delegates rules that enable House subcommittees to effectively kill bills, including measures passed by the Senate.

    By the end of Thursday's meeting, the Senate subcommittee was voting down bills with as few as two members in the room. Absent senators left proxies to record their votes. Sen. Frederick Quayle of Suffolk was the only Republican on the subcommittee.

    The Marsh-appointed subcommittee voted 4-1 against a bill (House Bill 49) that would repeal Virginia's law limiting handgun purchases to one per month. The 1993 law was a signature initiative of former Gov. Doug Wilder, who pushed it as a means of reducing illegal gun trafficking.

    The subcommittee also rejected a bill that would exempt firearms and ammunition made and used in Virginia from federal laws. House Bill 69, sponsored by Del. Bill Carrico, R-Grayson County, has been embraced by 10th Amendment advocates who criticize the reach of the federal government.

    But gun rights advocates have still scored victories in this session. Both houses have passed legislation that would allow gun owners with permits to take concealed handguns into restaurants that serve alcohol. They also have passed a bill that would let individuals without concealed carry permits store firearms in locked vehicle compartments.

    Other bills defeated by the subcommittee Thursday included a measure that would deny public access to concealed carry permit records kept by local circuit courts. And it rejected a bill that would require localities with gun buy-back programs to resell the weapons to licensed firearms dealers rather than destroy them.
    BTW -- "public access to concealed carry permit" means lets Newspaper print names & details such as addresses.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Virginia members need to EMAIL the full Courts of Justice Committee to press for all of the firearms bills to be heard by the full committee. You also need to CALL and EMAIL your State Senators to protest this unethical act and violation of Senate Rules, this blatant effort by a handful of Senators to impose their personal, anti-gun philosophy on the entire State, and this willful disregard for the people.
    - Tom
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Senate subcommittee votes down handgun bill - Roanoke.com



    BTW -- "public access to concealed carry permit" means lets Newspaper print names & details such as addresses.
    That's fine...some of us will return the gesture with the name, address, median income, tax filing status, marriage status etc... of those who post our data.

    oh and pretty above ground pictures of said addresses...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    FWIIW...

    I sent the following LTE to Roanoke Time. Doubt if it will be printed, but we'll see.

    So far, you have run fairly bland news stories about Sen. Henry Marsh's, (D) "Stacked Subcommittee" and his assertion that won't put the bills on the full committee's docket when it holds its final scheduled meeting Monday.

    However, what is your editorial position on this issue? How do you view it in light of your Friday, November 27, 2009, "Editorial: No stacked committees" which included, "Committees that reflect the composition of the House serve representative democracy far better than the old Democratic system. See: No stacked committees - Roanoke.com

    In the penultimate paragraph of a post that Dan put on his blog he, to his credit, actually condemned Marsh's action:

    "Now, there are some loud whines of "unfair" coming from the gun movement right now.

    Those are justified because disproportionately stacked subcommittees are wrong."

    Why have you not condemned Marsh's action at the editorial level?

    Ignoring the Senate's Rules makes a mockery of the Senate and the Committee. Does the Roanoke Time approve of them violating their own rule and adopting the "rule-of-men" not the "rule-of-law"?

    Does your agreement with Marsh's "ends" overshadow your disagreement with his "means"?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Ridiculous. I don't know what to say. I am speechless. Broken system.

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