The story says the girl was protesting the family moving to Florida and it was her family stuffing her into the minivan. Then it says the Virginia DA is contemplating charges against the family....charges for what? They didn't break any law. They put their minor child into a van while she was attempting to run away. They didn't call the amber alert, others did. Am I missing something?
If I had witnessed it, I would have gotten tag # and descriptions and called 911. As the actual story goes, you never know what a situation really is when you see it. The police can sort it out.
PS. Can you imagine a concealed carry permit holder thinking it is a kidnapping and intervening with weapon drawn? Then if one of the family members also had a CCP would they be justified in defending themselves with their weapon? Just thinking of possible scenarios and points to ponder.
another beaming example of you have no idea what youre getting into if you dont have the whole story...i am surprized nobody approached them and asked what was going on...and i'm not....
I would have jumped in for sure. I would have thumped the man on the spot and helped the girl escape or I may have drawn my weapon and demanded them to stop. I also may have gone to jail. :redface:
The "alter ego" rule in SC has its value but it can also be dangerous as it would have been in this thread' case and should, IMO, only be used where you really can appreciate the details of a situation as they unfold in front of you. Almost, by definition, you will never be sure since you have "no dog in the fight". Alter ego defines your ability to intercede in a situation where you believe that the person in jeopardy could be facing imminent threat of death or great bodily injury IF THAT PERSON WERE YOU. Almost impossible for you to know what is really going on; for that reason I would only intercede at a point where imminent death seems to be the logical outcome--ie: a beating is taking place and the victim is literally unconscious and not defending themself or a firearm has been drawn on and pointed at a victim--even then I would hope that my initial 911 call gets a response first.
This is a difficult position for the family. As is, they look like abductors, but what's the alternative? Just let her run loose into who knows what? Then we end up with a real amber alert and parents being acused of neglect, etc.
I'm not sure what the DA thinks he'll charge them with. Unless they beat her to get her in the car, I'm pretty sure securing your child is not against any laws, though her being 17 could be the issue. She might be legally old enough to have refused to go. It depends on their state's laws.
That’s why its always a good policy to not intervene. Be a good witness and get a plate number. Best not to make a life altering mistake when you know so little, its not your job to begin with, and you have no clue what your getting into.
I would have dialed 911 and followed the van at a safe distance updating dispatch with its location. Let the police sort it out. No way I'm drawing my weapon in that instance.
My granddaughter decides she wants to walk over to the baseball fields to watch her brother's game, only 2 1/2 blocks away. That's fine, but due to the number of people coming / going I keep an eye on her. I'm in a Miata.
I'm sitting at the parking lot entrance to the fields ..... watching her walk down the street. When she gets there she walks up to me and she decides to jump in to ride over to the exact field.... so she'll know where the car is parked.
OUT JUMPs a woman in a van..... grabbing my granddaughter and forcing her towards her van. I'm out in an instant..... and approaching her. She's screaming at me to "go away" while my granddaughter is screaming and fighting the woman. When I got up to her, I told the woman if she didn't get her hands off my granddaughter the police were going to be hauling her off for attempted kidnapping and that might be before or after I put her down on the ground (physcially).
The woman looks at my 'screaming' granddaughter.... and then asks her.... "is he your grandfather ? " . Seems that is the first question she may have wanted to ask, "do you know him ? " .... before grabbing her.
I was ticked off to say the least and read the woman the riot act. I also told her that was a good way to get shot or go to jail, grabbing someone's kid. What ticked me off more was she did not apologize..... so , I informed her if I saw her again near her... the police would be involved. I didn't call them, but should have.
The parents here have every right and the law will defend them, that they can forcefully restrain or remove the girl for her own welfare and safety. To talk about charges against them is ludicrous. In that situation , someone "asking" what was going on would not have been out of line, or people calling 911 for them to verify what was going on, but don't go grabbing people or pulling a firearm unless you are absolutely certain you know 100% what's going on.
I live in Northern VA not too far from the initial incident, and was listening to the all-news station from DC when the first "Amber Alert" went out...
The description include the fact that the girl was 16 - 17 yearsold...had a complete Rhode Island license plate number...
Someone got and passed on good info to LE...
I agree with those who say get that info, but don't just wade in with weapon drawn...
It could have been a kid on drugs and the family was trying to rescue her and send her to some sort of boot camp. You can never be sure. Call 911 and get a tag number or follow them relaying locations via cell phone until the cops can catch up.
Im so glad Im able to absorb some of these random scenarios and hear how different people would respond.
This one is just so bizarr, but I don't honestly think I could say that I wouldn't have gotton involved. The way she was protesting, it looked like a kidnapping. Those family members seem rather immature, and really could have put her at risk.
I witness something similar several years ago on a local shopping mall lot. I called the police and stayed on the line with the dispatcher so she would be able direct the responding officers accordingly. Worked out fine for all concerned. Also turned out to be some friends hijacking another friend for grins.
No harm no fool. I would done the same in this situation.
One thing nobody has pointed out is the fact there is no audio. I'm pretty sure the reason why the bystanders just keep walking by is I bet the conversation sounded something like "No Mommy or Daddy don't make me move away from my friends" or something similar. I'm sure there was no reason to doubt these people were her parents just by the words exchanged during the struggle. Just a guess on my part.
I don't know. I think at this point the girl was probably screaming incoherently. I think most ordinary people are not going to be willing to get involved. It's sad, but that's what the world has come to.
2 men, grab a woman and force her into a car along the highway...... one of the men commence hitting her. They are all about 35-40 yrs old.
I called police, got tag number, and followed at safe distance without them realizing it. Police caught up to them and pulled them over. They discovered, the woman was an "EX" , and the ex-husband was taking her out in the country ..... "saying all the way he was going to kill her". He was armed and had a rifle in the trunk as well. The other man took a deal if he testified against her EX - husband. Oh, they also had a shovel in the trunk for digging a grave.
EagleKS you were much calmer than i would have been, my niece is 9 and my nephew is 15, i also have an 18 year old niece, and a 19 year old nephew, the 18 and 19 can handle themselves, if someone grabbed my one of my nieces or nephews, they would meet my XDM, weather or not they met a .40 hollowpoint is up to them
I have to agree. If a stranger snatched one of my kids (8 and 1) out of my car, they'd be staring down a barrel before my kid's feet hit the ground. People just don't go putting their hands on someone else's kid without expecting it to go over poorly.
OldVet, good way to look at it, you're right, anytime we all go out with our CCW, we run the risk of having to do something that will haunt us. Macho stuff aside, we do have to remember the consequinces of a shoot, good or not good
btw, that is a great picture for you to have of your father, you must be very proud of him
I honestly don't understand why some people feel the need to get involved with anything just because they carry a gun. That is what the Police are paid to do. You get involved doing the right thing, you get the tables turned around on you then you are charged. Just dial 911 and end of story. Being an armed civilian isn't a bullet proof vest.
Police are paid to solve the crime and arrest the perpetrators. They, technically, have no reason nor mandate to prevent a crime, in progress or not.
I would try to stop this whether or not I had a CCW. While calling 911 on the cel...
Now again, we have no audio...
If the words of the "attackers" and the "abductee" told more of the whole story, and enough of it for me to understand what is going on... I would NOT get involved...
And since I never saw the "abductees" mouth covered in the video, it's quite likely that the verbage from all participants "explained" the situation well enough to the "bystanders that apparently did nothing."
I'm pretty sure she'd have to be legally emancipated to stay against her parents' will. Those not doing anything could have seen her acting up in the store and knew she was just upset with her parents. Yup, say something and call the cops.
EagleKS, yup that woman is damn lucky you showed restraint. Glad it worked out for you. She probably still didn't get the message since she didn't have to talk to the cops about what she did.
911, plate number, vehicle description and alleged kidnapper descriptions (I might and I reiterate MIGHT have intervened verbally but would NOT have drawn) However I would have probably followed the van and gave the 911 dispatcher all the info and what I was doing. HOWEVER, the only time I would feel the need to draw would be if a weapon was produced. I have friends with kids, and I have SEEN what can happen when kids dont want to listen or leave.You would SWEAR they getting beaten to death or being kidnapped by the way they scream rant and rave. The worst thing that Ive heard caused me to run outside and next door was from my one time neighbors daughter was NO NO NO I DONT WANNA GO WITH YOU LET ME GO HELP ! When I got over there, they were trying to get her to a doctors appointment, I knew the people and this kid was 15 years old and had severe Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia so this was a normal occurrence. MORAL of this story, is things are NOT always as they seem.
Something that was drummed into my head in training is when "off-duty"(and that definition could be its own thread!)be a good witness and let the guys working do the job. I would have followed at a safe distance while calling in the cavalry!
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