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AR-15: For Home Defense?

26K views 111 replies 42 participants last post by  CanuckQue 
#1 ·
I acquired an AR-15 with a Spike's lower and Rock River Arms upper on a trade. I have a Quad Rail floating hand guard, and I bought an Eotech 552. It has a removable handle and a retractable stock.

I have Magpul Pmag 30 round magazines.

I considered using this as a home defense gun. Would this be impractical?
 
#3 ·
Unless it is a 24" bull barreled target AR, it's probably not impractical.

If it is an M-4gery, then it is close to ideal for an HD carbine.
 
#4 ·
Thats the direction I'm heading. I live in a very rural area where I think it is more than practical for home defense, and whatever else I hope I don't have to defend, like my or my parents property.
 
#5 ·
Sure it'll work fine... BUT, it's hard to beat a 12 gauge shotty with an 18" barrel and buckshot for HD... Be careful going around corners with either one of those though...
 
#6 ·
I think of mine as a back home defense weapon, more suited to outside use. Even with the 16" barrel, it is unwieldy inside without a lot of training, which I do not have. Mine stays in the safe but I can have it in my hands in a minute or have it out if there is the probability of a natural disaster (tornado warning, etc.). Think of it as part of a home defense system working with your handgun. Seconds on the shotty, if you pull the trigger on an 18" with BS, You are going to hit something, especially if it has a light. Lots of drywall work afterwords tho...
 
#7 ·
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Clearing a house with a long gun by one's self is a tragedy waiting to happen. I have personally seen a shoot house demo of how quickly one can be disarmed. I am big man and have some martial arts experience with a staff, so I can probably handle a tussle for the rifle/shotgun, but I won't take that chance! I will ALWAYS clear or investigate a "bump" in the night with a pistol and flashlight.

My shotgun is for hunkering down in one room and training it on a closed/locked door waiting for the dumb BG to come to me, (i.e. ambush), or for 100yrds or less,... I love my 12 gauge!! The AR is strictly for reaching out to "touch" someone on my property, long range. I am just not a big fan of the 5.56/.223 for CQB.

Just my 2 cents.
 
#9 ·
Clearing a structure by yourself regardless of your weapon system is always asking for trouble. Can you do it, maybe, but generally speaking, its not something I would want to do, and I have a decent amount of training/experience on clearing structures.

As far as retention of a long gun, proper training, as well as a "proper" sling (one point or three point, or the newer two points) help with that. And that should be backed up be either a pistol and a blade, with training on transitioning, as well as proper usage.

Really from my experience CQB type stuff is one of the places where the 5.56 rounds does best. You can get multiple well placed rounds on target very quickly. It is at distance where it is losing some of it power that I have seen it have more issues. Maybe your experience tells you otherwise though.

That being said, if I knew the fight was going to stay indoors (which you never really can know because Mr. Murphy likes to muck things up) I would grab a 12 gauge backed by a .45. If it was going to move to an area where I couldn't be sure the range would be that close in, it would be an M-4gery backed up by the .45. And if it was too long for the M-4, then its not SD shooting.
 
#10 ·
We recently had a crew doing home invasions here in Corpus. There were 4 guys, at least two armed and wearing vests. I can't think of a better choice over the AR for defeating the vest, rapid fire and target transitions…. Also, less deadly after penetrating numerous walls, for those that are concerned about over penetration.

Get some good 75 grain Hornady TAP (5.56 if you can find it - and have a 5.56 chamber - .223 will still be just as effective at any defensive range and well past 100 yards. 5.56 has about a 200 fps advantage, but that means nothing until you hit the fragmentation threshold. 5.56 also has the T2 bullet that has enhanced fragmentation, but that really won't matter much until you are at the velocity threshold for fragmentation). I have an 8" gun, a 12" and numerous sub guns, but choose to use a 16" for home defense. That will soon be an 11.5" that takes that role, but that's at least a few months away. 5.56 is a 300 yard round and in for most effective use. I've always trained to put three or four rounds center mass as fast as possible. I can do this from a low ready in roughly 1 to 1.5 seconds.

As for clearing a house, that comes down to tactics and experience, not leading with the muzzle, staying back from the corner unless it's tight and done;t permit, etc.. There are also a number of drills on how to deal with someone grabbing your rifle, they just need to be practice. If someone goes for mine while I'm clearing my house, at the slightly-low ready, they're going to lose their knees. I've seen and done this before in force on force and it's quite effective. But, it can always go the other way. I should mention, I never leave the master bedroom without my handgun on my belt as well.

*Edit to add - I use Magpul MS2 slings with ASAP plates on all but one of my AR's.. The other gets a Vickers two point. The main advantage to the single point for this use is seamless transitions to support side, which I think is an absolute must when clearing a home or building, especially by yourself. As little exposure as needed is always a plus. A good light is also a must.

Recently picked up two KAC SR15's. H1 replaced with a T1 in LaRue QD (like my other one) with a KAC mount on the way, just had to wait since my guns try not to share optics, added a KAC Triple Tap (replaced Gemtech suppressor mount) and a BattleComp to the other, plus a FDE Surefire 300a with the SR07 pad behind the integrated flip up front sight instead of the E1B and E2D I had mounted on both. Ordering a Schmidt and Bender 1-8 but won't see that for about 9 months probably due to release dates.


Sorry for the crummy iPhone 4 pics.


 
#11 ·
*Edit to add - I use Magpul MS2 slings with ASAP plates on all but one of my AR's.. The other gets a Vickers two point. The main advantage to the single point for this use is seamless transitions to support side, which I think is an absolute must when clearing a home or building, especially by yourself. As little exposure as needed is always a plus. A good light is also a must.

Recently picked up two KAC SR15's. H1 replaced with a T1 in LaRue QD (like my other one) with a KAC mount on the way, just had to wait since my guns try not to share optics, added a KAC Triple Tap (replaced Gemtech suppressor mount) and a BattleComp to the other, plus a FDE Surefire 300a with the SR07 pad behind the integrated flip up front sight instead of the E1B and E2D I had mounted on both. Ordering a Schmidt and Bender 1-8 but won't see that for about 9 months probably due to release dates.


Sorry for the crummy iPhone 4 pics.


I like the ASAP plate too, very versatile. I think for indoor use with a pistol back up, single point is the way to go.

An low/no magnification illuminated optic (EOtech, Aimpoint, Primary arms, other red dot) is a good addition for a HD gun too, along with a light.

Jon, some of use would consider those iphone pics decent for ourselves and our photography skills, they can't all be works of art...
 
#12 ·
I'd use it as a "hole up in the bedroom" gun, but not to clear a house with. That takes more than one person to do it with what I would consider acceptable risk anyway. Better to cover one entrance with a powerful weapon capable of putting many rounds on target in just a few seconds while calling the police. If they don't enter the room you and the family are hiding out in then hopefully they don't break or steal much, but that's what insurance is for. If they enter your room before the cops arrive, light them up.
 
#13 ·
Thanks! These are what I usually come up with when taking a quick snap for posting…

Nikon D3


iPhone 4 in better light


My D3 - a buddy took these pics of me


 
#15 ·
#16 ·
I don't keep my AR at hand for HD stuff..... BUT, it's always empty chamber, 30 round mag loaded to capacity with 75gr TAP, just incase ;) I could have it ready to fire within 10-15 seconds.

I NEVER want to clear my house, let alone with a long gun. The shotgun, within 2 seconds, it's in my hands and ready to go, but exiting to bedroom with an 18.5" barrel long gun isn't going to be easy. My USP I can in my hands within seconds. Much easier to clear a house with. I have NO formal training clearing a building. I never want to do it, though, I'm familiar with the fatal funnel, making wide corners if you can, never round a corner Hollywood style, kind of keep the pistol tucked into your chest (think holding a slung AR). Is that the offical way? Maybe not but it seems like it'd be logical. Again, no formal training. I don't want to sound like an internet commando, haha. I always tell myself, the USP is for investigating an odd sound inside the house (won't go outside). The shotgun is for defending against a KNOWN threat. Truth is, I'll grab what I can or deem needed at the moment.

As far as self defense ammo in your AR, IMO, use the heaviest grain OTM rounds you can. I don't care if it's a 1:50 twist. HD, even with an AR will no be far enough for anything to keyhole and become unstable. If you're going to be shooting 200 yards (obviously not self defense ranges), yeah heavy grains may keyhole with an inappropriate barrel twist. Heck, at self defense ranges you'll have to aim 1.5" high anyway due to the sight height, unless you sight your AR at 7 yards ;)

Hornady TAP in 60gr or 75gr, and Federal TRU also has some nice options. The 64gr soft-point TRU seems to have very good ballistics. Even plain old 55gr FMJ round will do. You'd be close enough that the velocity will still be high enough to create a yaw effect. I'd still use the best you can. You're not limited to 55gr FMJ.

jonconsiglio - Nice pictures! Looks fun!
 
#19 ·
Self Defense in the home:

Option one me and my wife are both home: Call 911, wife has 12 ga stays in bed room covered looking down hall. I go to clear with Glock..
Option Two I am home alone: Call 911 go to clear with Glock
Option Three wife home alone: Call 911 get 12 ga from cover stay in bed room looking down hall from cover wait for police.

My house is set up with the master bed room being the far point from any door with a long straight hall way leading to it.
 
#20 ·
I do not feel that any long arm is the best choice for home defense unless you live in zombieland. The advantage of the handgun in allowing you to do simple tasks such as opening a door, talking to a 911 operator , or even carrying a child to safety while still be ready to engage a threat, gives it distinct advantages.

Of course this is my opinion, but Mas Ayoob has also suggested the same. Handgun= hand, not hands, and that is a philosophy and use we have seemed to forgotten about.
 
#22 ·
I believe it is foolish to clear a house in the dark. When police respond they arrive with numbers, canines, and other gear that enable them to be safe. Furthermore, a criminal will not wait around when they see blue lights coming. But, they may wait in the darkness in an ambush area and wait for you to enter the kill zone.

I am an LE, and if someone breaks into my house, and I do not have visual and a good shot, I am calling 911, secure my family, put our backs in a corner, armed ready, and on the phone with my brothers, or sisters in blue.
 
#24 ·
double post
 
#27 ·
Yeah, sometimes you can tell by the noise if it's something you can deal with. Sometimes my big German Shepherd will lay down against the back door very hard, and it jars the screen door.
 
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#28 ·
It depends on the home being defended. Is it one of these FL homes where you can reach out and touch your neighbors house from your window, or do you need to cover more territory and the neighbors are an acre away?

In most "residential" neighborhoods, I feel the shotgun is much more practical. My lot is 125' x 80', and anything farther than that--where an AR would be more effective--probably isn't my concern or a direct threat to me. In distances from the front door to the back door, my pick is the shottie--hands down.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I chuckle to myself alot about how alot assume that we all live in the standard neighborhood...but I understand that most all do.. My closest neighboor is a more than a quater mile down the road with thick Texas wild brush in between.

I live on 5acres and over look another 15. LEO response time is 15-20min if on this side of county.

Plus you have to travel down a curvey gravel road and up a gravel driveway thats about 200yards long to get to the house....could hear that gravel crunching long before one got close.

All that said. I still will not clear our multistory house. Unless I HAVE to, like, makeing sure the Mom-in-law that fell asleep in the recliner is ok or someother things like that, and will do with a handgun useing the good 'ol pie and slice (which can take a while). I won't go out and "clear" the property... the immediate property...though if I HAVE to I am taking a rifle.


After all that said.... I will prefer to stay safely upstairs with loved ones and in bunker mode until help arrives.


I mainly have to watch for wildlife in our garden etc.etc. more than anything else.

Edit: So really, it's up to you and your enviroment that will make the decision. Bunker down...long gun, reluctant clearing? Handgun.

Keep that rifle maintained and it will serve you well.
 
#33 ·
My idea of HD is from the inside out, not outside in. If I come home and suspect someone's inside, I'm all for letting LE come do the dirty work. Their insurance far exceeds mine.

Yeah, like all guns, shotguns need to be aimed also. But they do have a larger margin of error than a handgun, all things being equal.
 
#34 ·
There's a reason the shotgun is considered THE home defense weapon…

I've been watching my brother-in-law's million dollar home while they've been gone to their vacation home. I got a call from the alarm company about a glass break alarm. They had just been broken into a few weeks prior (most likely by his daughter's scumbag boyfriend). I got there before the police. As much as I'd have LOVED catching that dirtbag, or any dirtbag for that matter after almost shooting that guy few months ago, I waited for the police to get there and clear it.

They have one painting alone that's worth almost $250,000, not to mention all the other stuff. last time they got 2 laptops, an iPad, a shotgun, a Rolex and some jewelry. I'd have hated for anyone to get away with that, luckily most thieves (down here at least) are too stupid to realize what's what.

Anyway, no one was inside, but there was a piece of wood wedged into the french doors that go into the master bedroom. Not sure why they got a glass break alarm, but it could have been the pitch of the dog's bark or wood cracking from what they said.
 
#35 ·
Someone told me a long time ago, drink cheap wine, smoke filterless cigarettes, and find the ugliest woman you can, and your problems are solved. You don't have a damn thing anyone else wants! Lol

hey jonconsig! Haven't seen you here in a while! Yeah I'm workin on that trip as we speak. Wife and I are tryin to sync our schedules.
 
#36 ·
Let me know when you get it planned. I wish we had something longer than 100 yards here. There's a 1,000 yard range up near Austin. Maybe we'll bust the 50 out and kill a couple hogs! I've been meaning to do it, just haven't gotten around to it. We're doing a NV hog hunt in a few weeks though and running HD video through the PVS-22. Should be some good stuff. Don't forget to let me know when you're coming...
 
#38 ·
Chivvalry, one overlooked variable is two attackers in your home. So the question is, even if you can retain possession of a long arm in a struggle against one, what do you do with two, while your weapon is tied up against the one? Everyone has their owngame plan, and I am not one to condemn, but personally, I like to reduce the variables against me.

If I lose a gamble at the Blackjack table, I am out some money. If I lose my gamble in my house by putting myself in a life and death struggle, my whole family loses.
 
#40 ·
I'd rather disarm an untrained person that has a rifle or shotgun, for sure, especially a shotgun since it will most likely be a pump. If we get that round out of the chamber, it's going to go south real quick for him. Here's something though that can help you with retaining your rifle or shotgun. Let's say you do everything wrong and lead with your muzzle. The muzzle will be pointing slightly down. When they grab it, and 90% will this way, they'll push down and towards you, maybe to the side. If you fire, you'll most likely hit the leg and I assure you'll they'll let go. If the muzzle is pointing at the dirt, drop to your knees and fire. This will bring the muzzle up as you bring the stock down, easily taking out their knees. Most likely though, it'll never get to this point.

A good sling makes all the difference here as well. I like running single point because it's effortless to transition to support side should to take a corner on your left. A 2 point works very well too and maybe even better for retention, you just have to practice loosening it and transitioning shoulders. This is very easy to do, it's even easier if your rear attachment point is not the right side of the butt stock and your front attachment point is on the left side towards the rear of the rail. When I run two point, it's usually with my single point, so all I do is detach the clip from the D ring on the sling and attach it to the RSA on my top rail. The rear attachment point for me is the ASAP plate.

I don't disagree with your decision at all. I just know all too well what a handgun will do and what a rifle will do. If I have a couple meth addicts busting through my house, the last thing I want to do is fight with a handgun. 2 rounds from a 5.56 (or shotgun) will destroy them at those distances with m855, let alone TAP in 60 or 75 grain. A shot two inches from the spine will most likely destroy the spine. A 9mm or 45 two inches from the spine will just punch through. Now, there are plenty of guys that have survived a couple rounds of 5.56 and stayed vertical, but the chances are much less than continuing to fight after a couple rounds of 9mm. Also, like I mentioned before, there was a group running around kicking in doors with vests on. Even with fmj in .223, you'll punch right through it. You may lose the fragmentation, but it's better than not penetrating at all. A shotgun with buckshot will also, most likely, not penetrate a vest, though it'll probably crack some ribs and not the heck out of them.

Don't rule it out. With the right training, you may find it's just right for you. If not, at least you got some more training on the platform. Remember too, I always have a handgun on me.. So, being able to grab my rifle is in the best of situations. Most likely if I have to fight, it'll be with my handgun. When I had to use a gun in defense, I had absolutely NO TIME to get my rifle.

With the right training, anything is possible. I look at what others are doing in the industry. I've seen enough people that I highly respect say they choose an AR for home defense. That's good enough for me. I wouldn't if I was the only one doing it. Now, I'm not going to grab my 700 in 308 to clear my home, but you better believe I would if I had no other options. I can't stress enough to go out and get some training. Even if it's not on the AR and just handgun. Get the best you can and practice for 15 minutes a day. Muscle memory is so very important and many overlook it. Also, get some low light training. i thought I knew what i was doing before with a good Surefire. Turns out I was COMPLETELY wrong. Very quick flashes while moving and it's best to shoot with the light off - get that. That was a shock to me at first, but it's what many teach if in the right situation.

not only will all the training give you a major advantage, it's enjoyable as well. Marines are clearing houses everyday with their 20" A2's with fixed stocks and plates. Not ideal, but it can be done. Not that it relates to us, just saying'!



Gotta have that handgun on the belt too, don't forget. Also, I've found that calling a time out works in many cases :wink: - If that doesn't work, I toss some red Phos!
 
#44 ·
AR15 inside a house? Yes, of course, but paired with a handgun. I have cleared plenty of houses with a shotgun* and a handgun, and a few with an AR15 and handgun, while working big-city PD patrol night shift, with fellow officers helping me. If I just HAD to move through a structure by myself, with armed opponents about, I would probably want a handgun in hand. If staying put and waiting for bad guys to come to me, which is generally the better option if working without a team, I want the long gun in hand, preferably a carbine.

Of the two, shotgun and AR15, the carbine-length AR15 is the easier to manipulate indoors. If I am the one making the rules, I will pick a carbine over a shotgun. (40 hours a week, somebody else's rules apply, and certain conditions must exist for the carbine to be uncased.)

*As I get older, infirmities have shown me that running a pump gun is not so easy anymore. It is not recoil that is the problem, but manipulations such as reloading on the move. I don't generally carry them anymore at work, as training has become painful. Autoloading carbines make better geezer guns!
 
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