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Here is a a scenario I dreamt up for mental exercise and conversation

8K views 113 replies 51 participants last post by  F350 
#1 ·
Lets say you are traveling alone, across the northern plains states in the dead of winter. ( I know its goofy, but I got to set the scene so we are all on the same page for sake of conversation)

You're buzzing along across the nearly empty highway listening to your collection of favorite music, and the snow starts flying. Before you know it, you're caught in a blizzard. You switch from your mp3's to the radio, and sure enough, the winter storm of the century is bearing down on your route. Not knowing exactly where you are and whats around and being in your properly equipped for conditions late model 4x4 of choice, you decide to press on and out pace the storm.

The snow is getting deep, the wind is howling, temp is dropping like a rock. Its now dark out. You've got plenty of fuel, but you are in the middle of nowhere. Now, there is nobody else on the road. Radio reports state that there is a winter storm emergency, all traffic is to be off the road. Emergency services are not available, if you get into trouble you are on your own. They simply cannot reach you. The discussion on the radio is about if people get stranded, they could very well be for days- and thats if anybody knows they are even there. Cars get covered in snow and only found again in spring. You have no choice but to drive on.

As you drive along, struggling to keep on what you think is the roadway, you see a older car with Mississippi plates (lets say a 1994 Ford Escort ) off to the side of the road. The snow is already starting to cover it. You slow to a crawl to check on possible occupants as you pass and see a man inside the car. He's bundled up in just about everything he could find, trying to keep warm. His car isn't running, and his flashers are starting to dim. Being the good guy you are, you stop.

The middle aged man seems nice enough, just had a little bad luck with his car. He tells you it broke down about 45 minutes ago and he can't get it restarted. You try to help him, but you both fail at getting the car restarted. Even if you did, there is no way the car could handle the current conditions.

You offer the man a ride which he accepts. He tells you that there is an exit about 10 miles up the road with motels, restaurants and service stations. If you could get him there, he'd be most grateful. He indicates he has the ability to pay for a room, meals and help with the car. He is not destitute, just stranded.

As he stands outside of your warm vehicle, he starts taking off the multiple layers of his make shift survival layers. As he's doing this, you see his pistol tucked in his waist band.
It seems as if he inadvertently let his sweatshirt creep up over the gun as he was taking off another outer layer.

Now, be honest with yourself, even if don't want to post your honest answer.
 
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#2 ·
Personally.....I would ask about it, while being ready to draw my own, if needed. If the guy has a permit, and is willing to let me see it, I'm going to my gut feeling. If I feel O.K. about him, I would give him a ride.

I may ask him to place it in the glove box or back seat though.
 
#3 ·
Well, to me the whole question is - why does he have the gun in his waist? If he was licensed in any way, shape or manner he would almost assuredly have the gun in a suitable holster.

So, I would be on extreme alert, but would continue to offer assistance.
 
#4 ·
if he ment you harm he likely would have done so already.
id have mine out (aimed at low ready) and ask for his and than , in my vehicle, ask for an explenation.

might be he thought shooting himself was a better ending than freezing.
 
#5 ·
Star moving nonchalantly towards my BUG in my pocket, ask him why he has that. If he says he has a permit to carry, ask him to see it, and if he seems OK give him a ride with the condtion he place it in the back of my vehicle, until we get to our destination. Explain to him that I am a permit holder and dont know him so if he wants a ride thats the rules.
 
#6 ·
Before he gets into my vehicle I am going to send a picture message of his license plate, him, and a goverment issued photo ID to one of my former coworkers and tell him what is going on. Then the question becomes am I just giving him a ride or are we going to hook my tow strap to his car. If I am pulling his car he is going to be in it. If I am just giving him a ride we get in the truck and go.
 
#16 ·
I'd simply ask the guy to stow the firearm in his luggage for my own piece of mind, and carry on as planned.
I'd be a little concerned if he didn't have a gun. gottabkiddin has about the most rational approach to this situation.

Before offering him a ride, I would check to see if anyone had cell service and attempt to call for any road assistance if possible. (However, I'm assuming that isn't going to happen, but I would at least check). If I make contact with 911 operator I would at least inform them of the situation and if I am offering the guy a ride, I would let them know about it and where my final destination is intended to be.

Ask him to stow his pistol in his luggage and give him a ride to the motel. Keep a close eye on him and remain in condition orange until you reach your destination.

One thing I would do before getting out of my car to begin with is place my BUG in the side pocket of my drivers side door. Stopping at the side of the road in these conditions I might certainly anticipate having to offer any stranded motorists a ride, which means I want a handgun (my BUG) already stored in the car for quick unimpeded access.

If I had not already done that, I would probably surreptitiously draw my BUG and slip it into the side door pocket as we both were getting into my SUV.

Again, having a gun hidden, but already out where I can get my hand on it and immediately shoot if necessary would be a good tactical plan.

I would have my primary gun in it's normal location on my person and my BUG hidden right next to my left hand for quick access.

I would not inform him I was armed. I see no reason to give up that tactical information. It's better to have him believing I am unarmed. Which would explain my insistence on having him stow his weapon in his luggage before offering him a ride.
 
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#9 ·
I would draw as inconspiculously as possible, pointing down. Ask why it is there. It could very well be a glovebox gun he put in him because he is in fact stranded and vulnerable. If I get a legit answer and my spidey scence approves, I would still give him a ride but the weapon would have to be secured out of his reach.
 
#14 ·
Happens all the time....meeting people carrying, more and more it seems....So this scene puts me kinda in a LEO shoe's..only they be duty bound to ask/confront...the West is a little different..regarding perception...makes all the sense in the world to me to be carrying, seeing someone with a side arm, or a knife doesnt get my bloodpressure up...but, I have very good instincts, that is, many times "battle tested"...I listen...I would be very aware of my fellow traveler......like the thought Sixto...is there a darkside to this....
 
#15 ·
Excuse me, I need to make a personal call for a second... (inconspicuously) "Hello dispatch, can you run this plate?"


In reality, I probably would never have stopped and just called 911 to report the stranded vehicle.
 
#18 ·
I find it moderately interesting that when a LEO removes a firearm from a legally ccw person for their own safety for the time of the contact, it raises the hackles on many peoples neck, yet when a legal individual is put in that situation with another (assumed) legal individual, a common thought is to disarm the guy for the duration of ones exposure to him...not pointing any fingers, as I honestly don't remember specifically who was up in arms about cops securing handguns, just thinking out loud...
 
#20 ·
I'm sure that was in the back of SIXTO's mind as he concocted this scenario.
 
#19 ·
In reality, I probably wouldn't have stopped either and just called 911 for them. When I was raised the day of hitch hiking had passed and every parent drilled into their kids' heads "never pick up a hitch hiker or anyone else you don't know along the road". Sorry to say, but it just isn't worth the risk.

For the sake of scenario discussion: I may not draw because they might do the same thing, but I would be preparing and making the motions to do so. I would ask about the weapon and as if others have said, they claimed to be CC licensed, I would ask to see that with some ID - and watch their hands VERY closely as one doesn't know if they are getting their wallet or a BUG. If they were legitimate in carrying, I would ask that it get stowed in their luggage for my safety, it is my car, my rules. If they didn't have a license, well, I am not entirely certain how I would handle that as I would be afraid of them pulling and firing as I am taking off in my car.

The fact that it is tucked into their waistband, "Mexican Style", to me is a real tip off that says criminal. While I understand that some people do this on occasion in certain circumstances, my impression is that it isn't something a non criminal type will do very often.
 
#21 ·
I would get myslef into a position that I could draw, and ask him nicely if he has a permit...if so I'd ask to see it and then I'd show him my permit we'd shake hands and probably be pretty fast friends.
 
#23 ·
This is a very good scenario to ponder...there are many ways to interpret the facts as presented...kudos to SIXTO for the effort!


...maybe he's just visiting his daughter whos moved out of state and he hasn't seen in 5 years...can't afford a new car or a plane ticket...
 
#24 ·
Well, I must be pretty sure he's going to die if I stopped to help him. So I say "I see you have a gun. You planning to shoot me with it?" And judge my response by his reaction. I also move my gun to an absolutely optimal position. Then warn him not to make nice with the dog, because he bites.
 
#25 ·
I know one thing, if I couldn't get a comfort level in him having a gun on him where I felt I had to be code orange during the entire drive to safety I would NOT pick him up. Trying to drive through blinding snow on covered roads is enough of a code orange situation as it is. Ask anyone who's done it.

If he was responding in a way that I was comfortable then he's along for the ride.
 
#27 ·
I guess I would also ask him for some ID and to see whether or not he had his CHL, CWL whatever it is called in MS. As far as him using a holster etc., well we get stories all the time about CHL holders doing boneheaded things and not using holsters.

If he said he didn't have a CHL and that he had the gun in his vehicle but when it died and couldn't get it started he decided to put the gun on him in case someone with bad intentions came along and tried to do him harm. Very possible in this scenario for that to be the case.

Asking him to put it in his luggage would be appropriate under the circumstances or possibly ask him to stow it in the console of the Jeep. I would not draw down on him or get in a low ready position etc. When traveling I try not to wear a jacket when in the vehicle, even though my Jeep with the soft top would only be somewhat warmer than outside, I absolutely hate wearing jackets/coats when I drive. I likely would just put the thing on when I got out to check on the fellow, so it would most likely be unbuttoned and easy to get out of the way in order to get to my gun if need be.

As far as the point about us wanting to disarm and but getting bent out of shape when a LEO asks one to disarm, well I don't fall into that camp, so I guess as long as the fellow would rather catch the ride and not freeze to death on the side of the road all would be good.


So, now lets play this scenario out with a nice looking gal that was stranded and accidently showed a handgun in her belt line. Wait, there are forum rules, we better leave that alone, but I bet the answers would be very, very different. :rofl: Anyone recall the name Aileen Wuornos, or seen the movie Monster?
 
#30 ·
Congratulations Sixto, on what I consider a truly great scenario. What makes it great, is that if you reversed it with you being the stranded individual and observing the potential samaritan with a gun in his waistband, the concerns would be virtually the same although the options might differ.
 
#34 ·
We are pretty much a group who are paranoid enough (in a good way, I think) to not even go down to the corner store for a jug of milk without being armed with a deadly weapon. Yet, we are willing to give a ride to a stranger with a gun? Where has everyone's SA gone?

Once I saw the weapon I would decline to give him a ride and promise to send help from the next town. If he is legitimate he may be cold for a while longer because he didn't follow the tenant of "concealed means concealed".

Excellent senario SIXTO...
 
#36 ·
We are pretty much a group who are paranoid enough (in a good way, I think) to not even go down to the corner store for a jug of milk without being armed with a deadly weapon. Yet, we are willing to give a ride to a stranger with a gun? Where has everyone's SA gone?

Once I saw the weapon I would decline to give him a ride and promise to send help from the next town. If he is legitimate he may be cold for a while longer because he didn't follow the tenant of "concealed means concealed".
According to the original scenario no help could get to him.
Radio reports state that there is a winter storm emergency, all traffic is to be off the road. Emergency services are not available, if you get into trouble you are on your own. They simply cannot reach you.
Michael
 
#35 ·
Eh, so you got busted, let's not stop this party... It's a good scenario...

I gave it some thought, and re-read the first post as well, and even the post where Sixto says the gun may have been in a holster...

I agree with Bark'n, too... I'd have a gun at least available, if I were the stranded motorist.

So: He's stripping off layers because I've already agreed to give him a ride... as he's doing so, on the passenger side of my car, I see he has a weapon. Appendix carry ("Mexican" or holstered)...

I've got my hand on the grip of mine and the car is between us (I haven't gotten in yet)... "I see you're carryin' a handgun, you got a permit for that?"

Could be a couple of answers here...

"Yep, I sure do." And he'd offer to show it... Or "No I don't, but I was a little concerned about who might stop and "try to help" if you know what I mean..."

Those are the acceptable kinds of answers anyway. And they come out of his mouth with little thought or effort.

Anything else, I'm ready to draw and fire... right now. And, I'd de-escalate from that if situation warranted.

Assuming everything is on the up and up (one of the first two types of answers). proceed...

If no permit, ask. "Would you allow me to stow it for you?" Anything but a positive response... he ain't gettin' in my vehicle. Figure out the best way to handle the transfer of the weapon, if the answer is affirmative.

If he has a permit and I've seen it... start asking questions... "Did you come through Illinois? if yes, "What'd you do with your gun traveling thru there?" (Actually no need to go thru IL.. but tells me more about his honesty.) And several more questions... might even include knowledge of USCCA or DC... If he's on DC, I'm asking where his BUGS are, and how many mags he's got...:duh::wink:

This is all "gut feel" from here on... I might be okay with him carrying, I might not... But his second amendment rights end at my vehicle threshold... If he carries in my car it's a privilege.

We best be on our way, man! It's snowed a foot since we started this little scenario...
 
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