You are passenger in a full size pick up truck with your spouse on a major highway when an idiot in another vehicle brake checks you for no reason. Said idiot then proceeds to pull alongside and make contact with your vehicle and tries to force it, and you off the road into either the median that is divided with I-beams and steel cable or possibly oncoming traffic. Wife is keeping the vehicle under control and the aggressors car is much smaller and lighter than yours so he is making little headway, You are armed and have a clear shot although there is considerable traffic. You can leasily make a shot without your bullet endangering other drivers but that leaves a pilotless vehicle to contend with.
What do you do? Thoughts. Different responses depending on what state you are in? I.E. gun friendly to absolutely not gun friendly.
First thing I'd do is get the registration number of the vehicle and a description of the occupants and call 911. Then I'd remove myself from the event by pulling over and stopping. If the attack continued at that point, and I had a shot, I'd take it. Even a small car makes a heck of a weapon, and will kill you just as fast as a gun.
First, I don't care how clear the shot was, or how great of a shooter I am, I would NEVER shoot from a moving vehicle into another vehicle (unless I was in immediate danger of dying). I would pull over (while calling 911 with a complete description and license #), see if the maggot had the ballz to pull over with me. If the attack escalated, then I would take the necessary steps (ask them, tell them, take action all while my Glock is pointed at their center mass).
This is basically how the "hypothetical" situation played out. Gun in hand but not displayed, brandished or pointed. Pulled over onto the shoulder and the other guy appeared to be doing the same. Wasn't but a second when the gentleman fled the scene. There was no screaming from the wife during the incident. 911 rang through with no answer. Wife foolishly gave chase against all better judgement at triple digit speeds. Thankfully the guy had a faster, better handling car and was able to evade. It was just about everything that I had to get my better half to call off the chase. I was worried about possibly having to use deadly force and I'm convinced that my wife was going to do the deed herself with the truck. You know what they say about a woman scorned right? We came across a State Patrolman a couple towns later and made a report, gave a vehicle description and plate number. Plate came back to a different make of car so I imagine it was stolen. Overall I thought it was handled about as well as could be expected up until the high speed pursuit.
One thing I forgot to put in the story was that my wife was 5 months and very visibly pregnant at the time.
Slow down, pull over. DO NOT PULL GUN...DO NOT SHOOT. Say you shoot and you hit your target--now you have a 3000 lbs uncontrolled vehicle ambling down the highway, and put everyone at risk. The only thing you can control is YOUR vehicle...
Seems like pulling over and dialing 911 is best response yet. !!! That would be the sensible thing to do, cause if they are that ignorant, your better off letting the LEO do the shooting if necessary, unless he pulls over with you and gets aggresive...
You said major highway so youll probably be traveling around 55 mph. If you take a shot at that speed, not only have you never trained for that (im just safely assuming) but if you hit your target there is a good chance you'll get in a nice amount of trouble. Pull over and if this said AH joins you, use whatever force necessary according to the situation.
My wife had someone try to force her off the road back in the 80's. (This was way out west & before cell phones.)
I was asleep in the "reclined" ps. After a couple miles my wife realized this guy was really trying to force her off the road and not just jacking around. I woke up just in time to see her show the BG she was gonna fight if she were stopped.
He slammed on his breaks, started backing up on the freeway and crossed median hauling butt in the opposite direction. (We notified other people on the road via CB radio and when we got to a sfae place we notified authorities.)
IMHO; stopping would be the wrong thing to do in most circumstances. "IF" you can still drive to safety do so! (Why would you do what the person trying to get you to stop wants you to do?)
I agree that shooting from a moving vehicle "AT" a moving vehicle is a very bad idea! But, I know 1st hand that "sometimes" just letting a BG know you're armed & ready to FIGHT will de-escalate things in a hurry!
A friend of mine was arrested, charged and convicted in Muskingum County, Ohio after showing his rappie in a road rage incident that he was armed and ready to fight at 70 mph several years ago.
Stop, stop, stop. Pull over and be prepared to dismount your vehicle and engage from behind the cover of your vehicle.
If you pull over, and he continues on, problem solved. If you pull over and he stops and exits his vehicle, you can either try and evade him in your vehicle by trying to drive around him or reversing out of there. If you have to engage him, I would prefer to do it from outside my vehicle.
It's a very fluid and dynamic situation. Some situations you may be better staying inside your vehicle. Other situations you're much better outside your vehicle. It just depends on how things unfold. Understanding different tactics and being able to think tactically allows you options for the best way to solve the problem.
Always try to evade inside your vehicle if at all possible, but sometimes it isn't going to be possible.
You have to decide if you want to engage from inside the limited confines of your vehicle (bullet trap), or engage from outside where you have the room to fire and maneuver, seek out cover and increase your options.
Always call 911 at your earliest opportunity. But don't be caught trying to talk on the phone when you should be defending yourself or maneuvering.
Get plate info, call 911, and do everything possible to avoid further contact.
You might also use your phone camera to record any additional events for use later.
Shoot on the fly, thou shall not do. If they make contact with your vehicle you are impelled to not flee the scene. Obtain description and plate data, call 911 and pull over. Maintain space between your vehicle and theirs, with their vehicle in front. If he approaches the vehicle tell him to stop, and wait until the officer arrives; reverse if you must. If he points weapon at you or otherwise acts in a way that justifies the use of deadly force; stop the threat with what you have available. All this time you should keep an open line with 911 so they can record the events.
I actually had a very similar situation on the PA Turnpike a few years back Northbound 476 around Allentown for those that know the area. Long story short.. I am driving in the right lane and the "Rager" was weaving in and out of traffic, tailgated me, then passed. I admittedly looked at him as he passed with one of those "*** is your hurry" looks, but in no way gestured or even mouthed a word. He began swerving toward me, and luckily enough there was enough shoulder that i was able to avoid and brake keeping him in front of me. If he would have persued me or try to stop traffic, I may have had to my pistol, but thankfully he Raged on down the highway and I dropped back to let him do his thing. I got the plate, called 911 and let him go on his way. I wasn't the only one he was doing this too either, so I am sure I was not the only one that called 911 that day on him. I still remember his plate too.. because it was a personalized plate on a large F250 size truck. Anyway, I don't know what ever happened with it, because i never heard back from the state police.
Call the Highway Patrol/911 immediately.
If his car is that much smaller and lighter, doesn't seem like you're in that much physical danger. Change lanes, if possible. If not possible, slow down so that if there is an accident, it won't be at 60 MPH.
Definitely do NOT take the shot. No matter what state you are in, that is a bad, bad idea.
Knowing what I know about my wife, after the b.g. brake checks her, makes contact with her, somebody better call 911, for him. She would definitely feed him a fender and put him in a ditch.
Call it in and disengage. If that means slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway or whatever, then do it. In effect do what you would do if you were not armed. In this particular scenario, you are in no particular danger, but by allowing encounter to continue, you risk making the other driver lose control of their smaller lighter vehicle and wrecking with an uninvolved third party. Being armed is not a factor other than an even more pressing reason to disengage.
I agree 100%, and as you said, "slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway" will solve most road rage scenarios.
The advice in my posts are directed towards incidents with real whack-job road ragers who just don't let it go. Those who push the confrontation or deliberately try to run you off the road. Those who want a physical fight and/or really want to kill you for encroaching on "their space." All in all, a very, very low percentage of incidents no doubt, but they're out there none the less.
Almost always, if you're the one who backs down, backs away and give them a wide berth, do not provoke, is usually all it takes to resolve the situation.
The ONLY time I might, and emphasize might shoot at a moving vehicle is if I had a clear shot of the driver and he was kidnapping my child (spouse/loved one). Otherwise, observe, record (license #) and report (911)
Thanks again for all of the response. This situation just illustrates to me that a real life defensive situation is not always black and white as to your response. I'm please to see that there is a consensus that the brake pedal and the cell phone trumped the trigger finger. As well as this turned out, I have maintained a few second thoughts. Mostly as to other directions this could have turned resulting in jeopordy of my family. Bottom line though, if I were to engage I would probably still be serving time in prison.
Just don't forget that you have a 20999970.832 gr projectile at your disposal should he decide to stop and charge at you with a weapon while your still in your car.
You can get in hot water for just brandishing a gun...if another driver didn't see the brake check and and only saw you draw down on another driver. I'd be all about calling 911 provide full description...Trooper would love to track that down an aggressive driver in real time I expect.
I would NOT be surprised if soon cars will have a mounted camera that will video your entire trip if you like (like a bar mounted bike camera or a sports' cam), and you'll turn it on via a switch on the steering wheel like Cruise Control. THEN you'll have something like a black box. It would record if someone cut you off and help police find their license number. It will even have a deterrent effect - if you know you're probably on video you might be more courteous.
Gun only cleared glove box and held at low ready after his car struck ours and attempted to force us off the road. No one saw the weapon, not even the road rager. I don't generally think it is wise to display a weapon as a show of force to deescalate anything. That put's the response into the bad guys hands. Either you are justified in using deadly force or not. I say that realizing there are situations in which the mere display of a weapon diffused the situation. Relying on that with someone that has already used deadly force against you is not a good plan in my opinion. I think it gives away any advantage of surprise that you may have.
To all - Sorry about the bad form. Initially just wanted to get the idea out there without being too specific. I was trying to get some feedback on it without all of the "Oh My God this awful thing just happened to my wife and I" hysterics. Initially I wanted to keep it vague because of some second guessing I had with the situation. Sorry for misleading anyone. Mind games were not behind any of this.
Thanks again for the input. Many valid points were made. Hopefully someone else can learn from the wisdom that was shared here.
Always try to avoid the fight. If you have to fight then get the first shot off. Then after you dropped the "Bad guy", you can spend $50k on a lawyer. So now come his relatives looking for payback, you worrying about jail, and you out $50k. On the other hand you could have muttered "What a f*cking idiot" and drove away.
Or your gun could have jammed and the bad guy could have shot you. So, you wound up in a wheel chair, with your wife changing your bed pan. On the other hand you could have muttered "What a f*cking idiot" and drove away.
Good points. In my case I felt the fight started when the guy used his car to try to force us off the road. There was a lot of weighing of options in my case at that point. My wife deserves a hell of a lot of credit, keeping a level head and skillfully driving. My thought process ran the gamut from shooting the guy and the possible consequences for my family and any other innocent bystanders to the legal ramifications of doing so.
Morally, I felt I was in the right had I chose to defend myself and my family. I also felt that I would be even more morally wrong if I contributed to an accident in which an innocent person was hurt or killed. I guess what I am saying is my first instinct wasn't necessarily the correct one. My wife's level headed actions bought me the time to process and make what turned out to be the correct decision. My wife dropped the ball bigtime when she gave chase.
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