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Old and slow

4K views 37 replies 34 participants last post by  JimmyC4 
#1 ·
I hate to start another "what's the best ccw fiream" but I think some of you can relate to my situation. I am 55 year old, overweight, four eyed professional who wears a suit everyday. Total concealment of my weapon is a must. My favorite carry piece is my Kel-Tec P3AT. I pocket carry with an extra mag.

Now for the problem, I practice alot and still can't hit crap. Standing and shooting with two hands I can put a mag in 6 inches at 5 yards. I won't win any competitions but for defensive purposes I feel that is good enough. However, this is slow fire, no pressure and me squinting to see those tiny sights. If I try a scenario with movement lateral or walking backwards I am all over the place. I don't even think all the bullets hit the cardboard target. I have tried painting my sites with different colors but things are still fuzzy. No surprise, the bigger the pistol I shoot, the more accurate I get. The bigger the pistol, the harder to carry and conceal.

I also have a 1911, Beretta 92, Taurus 24/7 9mm, CZ-82, Kel-Tec P11 and a Hi-Point C9. Of all my guns the Hi-Point is the easiest for me to shoot for accuracy. It has oversized colorful Sites for my failing eyes. I am not going to carry "the brick." I thought the Heine sights would be good but I shoot better with a three dot sight. I tried and liked the sites on a Glock 19 but it felt awful in my hand. I have a laser on the P3AT but it does no good in broad daylight.

Then there is carry, even the P11 is too heavy for pocket carry. Pulls my pants down. The P11 works well with my SmartCarry or Tuckable IWB holster. I can't shoot the P11 any better than the P3AT. Too small. I have tried to carry the 24/7, but am constantly aware of carry something big in my pants (add joke here.)

So what should a overweight, middle-aged professional carry under total concealment that is large enough to fire with some degree of accuracy. I need a mid-sized thin 9mm with big sights.

Frustrated and grateful for any advise.
 
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#2 ·
Small guns are hard to shoot, and the P3AT is downright tiny. Move up to a commander/Glock 19 sized pistol and you should find it a lot easier. If you don't like the Glock, try the Springfield XD, XDm, S&W M&P, HK P2000, or SIG P250.

Keep in mind that you can have the sights on most of pistols replaced fairly easily. If you want something big I would suggest XS Sight's excellent Big Dot sights.
 
#3 ·
Maybe your practice needs work. Do you know anyone who shoots well? Maybe they can help.

I see where you labeled yourself four eyed. Do your glasses not corect your vision for arms length? Have you tried progressive lenses? Progressive lenses seem to be the worst for shotgunning but I never had an issue with pistols.

Randy
 
#4 ·
The Sig P250 is great, but not thin. It's a double stack, try the P239, it's reletively small, thin and very accurate. In a 9mm I think it gives you 8+1 capacity. It's only about 5" tall, and 1.2" thick.
 
#5 ·
Randy, he stated that he has four eyes - unless he is an alien mutant, I think he already wears glasses! lol. I would also say check the prescription, AND get a larger gun. I do like the S&W M&P, and I think the XD(C) would be a posibility. One of my buddies who is in the same age/eyesight boat as you got some sights that look like a triangle - the rear sights make up the base and the front sight is the top, you just line them up.- dont know the name off hand but they helped him!
 
#6 ·
Have you considered a Ruger SR9. It is very thin and reasonably light with the plastic frame. It's 17 + 1 rounds of 9mm so it has plenty of firepower. I don't have one but it's recoil is supposed to be on the light side and would certainly be less than the Kel-tec. The Ruger's sight range will be longer as well which should make you more accurate. Range time would be fun for a change. If you leave your suit coat on all day the Ruger would be very well concealed in an inside the waist band (IWB) holster just behind your right hip. Remember to get a real gun belt type belt if you decide to IWB.
 
#36 ·
I agree with WVShooter that the SR9 is a great CC weapon (I carry it IWB). Thin, powerful, easy to shoot and little recoil. I also carry a Sig P232, somewhat smaller, even easier to carry. The night sights work great. I carry this in a shoulder rig or pocket holster. I'm 58, four eyed like you and it works fine for CCW.
 
#7 ·
I'm heavier than you, and am a six-eyed professional who doesn't wear a suit (I can't afford real bifocals, so I carry two pair of reading glasses to accomplish the task).

I would suggest we both look into point-shooting in one form or another, and buy laser sights if we win the lottery. Re: laser sights - the two of us together ought to be able to take on Sixto.

OK, you probably better read Sixto's comments before you go down the laser road: his disparaging remarks have made me feel a little better about not being able to afford one... and he is likely to be quite right. But a red dot would certainly be nice when I am not wearing my glasses or wearing the wrong pair or, worse, wearing both pair at the same time.
 
#8 ·
I assume that you take your coat off during the day in the office. But if you wear it all day any gun can be easily concealed with either IWB or OWB (my preference.)

A small, light, but powerful gun with good sights is the Kahr P9.
You might also consider a Mod 642. It is light, but the sights are not as good as the Kahr.

As has been said the KT P3AT and similar guns are much more difficult to shoo accurately, but with any gun, practice is the answer to being better.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#9 ·
Practice is key, not just putting rounds down range. Find someone in your area that is good, they can help you find the right fit on firearm and show you how to best conceal it well. Defensive shooting is a skill that not easy self taught. I'm 61, 5'11", 180 and sometimes carry 2 Sig 239's in 9mm under a T-shirt here in Arizona. With practice you can triple tap from concealment in under 2 seconds and pie plate at 21' while moving. Just find a good instructor, it's worth it.
 
#10 ·
Whoa, thanks for the quick reply everyone. I will check out the individual pistols later. I will try to answer some of your questions. I am not sure what progressive glasses are, but I wear Varilux. I suspect that is what you are talking about. My main sport is skeet and trap and I do not have any problems with them.

I already have a laser on the P3AT. Never really used it because I practice in the daytime and you can't see the red dot in the bright sun.

I do take my coat off, so total concealment is a must. That is why I have a SmartCarry and a tuckable IWB holster. What I gain in concealment I lose in fast draw. Everything in life is a compromise. I know I have to compromise on the pistol. Small enough to hide but large enought to hold steady and see the sights.

I recently read an article somewhere on XS Big Dot Sights. While they were not as accurate as a three dot, they were more than adequate for defensive purposes. I just haven't checked to see what pistols they are available for.

I practice by myself and I shoot IDPA. IDPA is fine but you spend 3-4 hours at the range but only get about 3-4 minutes of actual shooting time. You are right, I should just ask one of the seasoned IDPA shooters to spend an afternoon with me.

Would I have any better luck with a revolver? I do not even own a revolver.

And I am not an alien.

Klatu barada nicko!
 
#31 · (Edited)
As far as glasses go, maybe you would be better off shooting without them. Remember the correct sight picture is the front sight in focus, rear sight ok to be slightly out of focus and target OK to be blurry. Your eyes cannot focus on front sight and target at the same time. I havn't tried shooting with mine in about 6 months, last time I tried I found that if I had my glasses on I couldn't make out the front sight well at all. I now alway shoot without glasses, do much better that way.
I wear glasses to drive only. My eye doctor is suggesting I consider bifocals, but since I work at a computer all day, I only need to see up close, 18-36 inches which I see better without glasses or contacts.

In a SHTF situation, it would be easier to remove glasses from face, ie, driving, than trying to find glasses in pocket, open glasses and place on face anyways!

If you havn't yet, try shooting without glasses, don't worry that the target is blurry, you only need to find COM, not identify what the BG's tee shirt says on it. You can read it while he's lying there waiting for the medics to arrive. :wink:

BTW I carry a snub nose 38. The sites are way bigger than most auto's. My mother's berretta sights are positively microscopic compared to my snubbie.
You may have a hard time competing in IDPA using a 5 shot snubby, more reloads per stage. I do recall reading that some IDPA matches do have a BUG match that is set up for revolvers.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
"I would also say check the prescription, AND get a larger gun."

"I would say that too." Biker




I would say that three.
 
#15 ·
A couple good options are any mid size gun like a M&P 9 compact is a great small gun and you can replace the front site with a fiber optic to make it much more visible.

I do make and have in stock an OWB holster that would work for you C9 $65 shipped. I can also make any of my holsters for it. You know it works for you which in the end is very important. Then back it up with the P3AT (my P3AT is my backup gun choice).



Another good option is a K-frame revolver. I love my 2.5" Model 66 Smith with good sites and mine has a red insert that helps on visibility. I think I will carry it today :bier:



 
#16 ·
As soon as I read your post, what immediately came to mind was S&W 642 revolver with Crimson Trace grips. Only weighs 15oz. and you forget it's in your pocket.

Now, I'm going to give you a scolding.........I'm 64, and to me 1945 only represents the year I was born. I don't let it stop me from doing anything, and you shouldn't either. Don't use age as an excuse not to improve or learn new things. If you still can't hit a target, you need more practice and a better teacher! Good luck!
 
#17 ·
You are right, I should just ask one of the seasoned IDPA shooters to spend an afternoon with me.
Great idea! I'd add to find an instructor. A good shooter may not be a good instructor, teacher, or trainer.

Find a seasoned shooter that is also an instructor. An experienced instructor is important for the student.
 
#18 ·
I'm somewhat older and wear trifocals; also effectively blind in one eye. I have found a version of point shooting in which I completely ignore the rear sight and just point and look past the front sight works quite well with a small, but slightly larger gun than yours. I think a combination of: a) learning to point shoot; b) finding a gun you can point shoot with--it might not be the one you have if that is too small for your hand; c) getting your prescription checked might help you out.

Now, back to the eyeglasses. While many people have great luck with the type of variable prescription glasses you are wearing, others find that traditional bi or tri-focals work better. There are also combinations of things you can do like contacts for distance and reading glasses for desk work--if you can still see the dash board without an intermediate range lense. Or bi-focal contacts for distance and intermediate range and reading glasses for actual reading.

So, get your eyes checked, consider a slightly larger gun such as the Bersa, and practice point shooting. ALSO-- while you are practicing at 5 yards, remember that the real deal is likely to go down at a closer range, maybe 3-9 feet or less. You are probably just going to shove the gun forward and pull off the shots without any sighting. It will be direct contact or very close to direct contact. Even your small gun and modest aim are good to go for that.

Lasers, I hate when the guy in the next lane uses them. The dang light scatters back into my eyes. Why you need a laser at 15 feet is beyond me. And past that, I count myself lucky if I can still see the target. *exaggerating a tad*
 
#19 ·
I also wear bifocals. Can't read without them and can't see distance without them either. But the weird thing is, I see the sights best without my glasses! They aren't really clear but just a little better. My days of precise target shooting are long gone. However I simply put together a blurry sight picture and let fly.

I would suggest that you look into a gun with better sights. I used to carry a J frame but the front sight simply dissappeared as I got older. Now it's a Glock 26 w/ night sights. Its a huge improvement!

I also find that small guns are very difficult to shoot well. I have small hands but I can't get a good grip on the smaller pocket pistols. They just wiggle around too much.
 
#20 ·
I expect that the Kel-Tec P3AT is so small and light that you can not develop the leverage you need to pull the trigger without flopping the muzzle all over. It does not take much movement with a short barrel to be off point of intended aim.
I guess you will have to wear suspenders and carry a heavier handgun.
 
#22 ·
Stuart, I was just about to post my discovery of something MANY folks already know. A S&W snubby is the best thing since sliced bread. After trial and error w/a few different guns, I took my wife's 642 out and ran 50 rounds through it. Amazing accuracy at 12 yds plus for 1 7/8" barrel. Practiced a few wheels w/out my extra eyes, not as good but still very effective. I bought a 638 on Saturday and shot it yesterday and I'm tickled pink. Ugliest little gun you can find and I'm extremely satisfied. The balance of what you have in your armory, what's too big, bulky for carry, enough fire power, etc is something we all wrestle with. I'm satisfied that a 38 +P is something nobody wants to be on the bad end of and if you really want, you can go J frame in 357 though expect a bark and a bit of bite as well w/such a small frame. And a final note; I read a comment a few days ago by somebody on this forum saying "if you don't have a snubby in your collection....that ain't right" or something to that effect. He was right. Go handle one, if you can find one these days... You'll be able to take your time looking for the next one when you've got something solid in your back pocket.
 
#23 ·
Forgot a couple of points for the snubby. Shooting a 38 for plinking and practice is a reasonbly cheap proposition. Wadcutters are cheap and tamed down. A 380 is expensive; bang for the buck so to speak. If you start reloading, 38/357 is much more practicle than 380. As far as old and slow, one well placed +P should let you walk away, not run and fire again.
 
#25 ·
I don't think your problem is seeing the sights. My guess is your problem is trigger control. Do a lot of dry firing, including movement, using your laser to tell you how you are doing. You might also get one of those charts that tell you what you are doing to the trigger by where you are missing.
 
#26 ·
Relax.
Right now you are shooting "OK" enough for many of the self-defensive scenarios that you might encounter.
Worse than some but, better than some others.
Your honest desire to improve is what is important.

The P3AT is (of course) not the most ideal firearm for SD but, if that is all you can cope with right now then it is what it is.
Which is the one you're most likely to have on your person at this point in time.

Try adding a little bit of dynamic tension to your shooting.
Use A Firm Grip & Push Forward with your gun hand while simultaneously pulling back with your support side hand/arm.

Shop on Ebay for a gripmaster.
Search "gripmaster" and that sure will help you out with your trigger control. They are very inexpensive.
Buy a "Light" or a "Medium" gripmaster to start.
That should cover you for shooting .380 and will help allow your index/trigger finger to move completely independently of the remainder of your gun hand.
As a plus it will also improve your trap/skeet.

Trace around somebody onto scrap cardboard and Magic-Marker in a brightly colored dot approximately 4" diameter Center Of Mass.
Then pick an aiming spot like the lower edge of that dot.
That should be your intended target.

Good Luck.
 
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