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Open Carry at TD Bank - Police Called

18K views 92 replies 60 participants last post by  smity 
#1 ·
Just thought I would share my open carry story today. I am licensed in many states to carry and conceal carry. I work at a resort in the lakes region of New Hampshire and part of my duties include taking the business deposits to the bank. I frequent two banks in town - Ocean Bank & TD Bank. I have been visiting both banks with large cash deposits for several months now - openly carrying (holstered and secured) my Beretta PX4.

When I arrived at TD Bank in Wolfeboro, New Hampshire I went about my business. The bank was empty except for tellers and managers. I had a friendly conversation with the teller as she counted the money and completed the deposit.

The bank manager, Cecile Chase, tapped me on my back. I was a little shocked that she had crept up behind me but was not too alarmed. She yelled out that I was not allowed to carry a gun into the bank. She also barked out that I was breaking federal law because (brining a gun into the bank). I calmly introduced myself formally and explained I was making large cash deposits. I explained the gun was for my safety and I was no different than armed couriers in this state. She again reiterated that I was breaking the law and said the next time I would be arrested. I again informed her that I was licensed to carry in this and many other states and frequently carry into her bank and other banks in the area. She was unphased and said the police had been called. I thanked her for her time and asked for her business card, which she provided, when I left.

I waited outside for ten minutes but the police did not arrive. I decided to head over to the police station. I secured my Beretta in the vehicle and asked to speak to the Chief of Police. I spoke with a detective and the chief at length, and while there are no local nor federal provisions prohibiting it, he suggested I do a better job of "concealing" my gun. He also said TD Bank is a private business and can refuse service to anyone. He affirmed that I would not be arrested unless they cited me for some sort of trespassing complaint, though I doubt it will go that far.

Should you wish to contact Ceclia Chase about her no-gun policy in her bank, her contact details are below:

Cecile M. Chase
Vice President - Banking Center Manager
36 Center Street
Wolfeboro Falls, New Hampshire 03896
Bank Telephone: 603-569-8999
Bank Fax: 603-569-4453
Her Direct: 603-569-8996
Email: Cecile.Chase@tdbanknorth.com

I hope others will help me speak out about this. She said I would be receiving a letter from TD Bank security operations outlining the incident. If/when I receive I will post a summary here.

Regards,

Chris
 
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#2 ·
Since you a depositor with the bank I do not know how they can refuse you admittance. Thus, I do not see how you can be "trespassing" if you enter with an openly carried firearm. However, I could be wrong and you should verify before you trust so to speak.

I would also write the president of the bank and explain that you, as a depositor, have been made to feel unwelcome at their bank by Ms. Chase. I would explain that you are licensed to carry the firearm and include the amount of money you consistently deposit with them and that you are a good and loyal customer of the bank. I would state the other things you mentioned such as security etc. Mention your post here in the letter.

Above all, be courteous and use good business language in your letter. If you receive a response a redacted version would be appreciated as a follow up thread.
 
#3 ·
Is the bank branch posted "no guns" at the enterance?

The police never responded to her call? Maybe she hadn't really called them; just threatened you with having done so.

Will your employer react if contacted by the bank and told that their employee was "violating Federal law?" I think you should ask the branch mgr. to contact the bank's attorney and to have him/her tell you which Federal law you violated.
 
#4 ·
If your employer is cool with you carrying while transporting these large funds; maybe the employer could threaten to do business with another bank? That would be awesome! Banks want large depositers like your employer right now more than they have in a long time. It would be cool if your boss could give the lady a few choice words...
 
#8 ·
When I inquired how I was any different from a Dunbar or Brinks armed courier, she did not reply. When I spoke to the Chief of Police, it did not appear that she telephoned them prior to my arrival.

If I do not receive a satisfactory reply from TD Bank, we will most certainly switch banks.

There are no "no weapons" or "no guns" posted anywhere in the bank.

I believe she is a sheep from Massachusetts originally..where guns are forbidden. She could not cite any federal law or statute to support her claim that I was breaking federal law.

Apparently their bank was robbed two years ago. But this is a fairly small town (40,000 residents) and I personally know the tellers. Do you think I would rob a place where I'm known and do a majority of my banking?


Sigh...
 
#65 ·
She could not cite any federal law or statute to support her claim that I was breaking federal law.
That's because there isn't one. Federal facilities owned and operated by the government for federal employees (offices or buildings) are off-limits for carry by federal law. These places include, but are obviously not limited to, the Post Office, IRS, Social Security Administration, Federal Courthouses, FBI Branches, and so on and so forth.

Clearly, a private bank is not federally owned nor operated. Some people are just so damn jittery.
 
#9 ·
It will be interesting to hear how that turns out. Bunny recently had a thread on Best Buy where there was a similar OC issue and got the store manager straightened out. Hope you get the same result.
 
#10 ·
The fact is that the bank manager blew it and may lose a good customer in the process. If she was so worried about you having a gun why did she sneak up behind you and tap you on the shoulder. If you had been some one there to hold up the bank it might have been all over for the manager.
 
#20 ·
If she was so worried about you having a gun why did she sneak up behind you and tap you on the shoulder.
That's a frequent element in these idiotic situations.

"I'm afraid of people with guns!"

"So then that's why you loudly and rudely rebuke them in public?"

These people are either liars, fools or both. I vote for the latter.
 
#11 ·
It's either that or I start to use the ATM or use the night drop box... but I do not think I should need to change my business process becuase of a sheep bank manager.

In addition, she also tapped me inches above my Beretta. It could have ended a lot differently if I felt she was reaching for it to remove it from my holster.
 
#12 ·
Sorry that happened to you, but nicely done by heading her off and going straight to the PD. I'm impressed. I never would have thought of that.

You stayed calm, cool, and collected the whole time, both at the bank and the PD, that speaks volumes for how you represent ALL of us who carry, and show that we are not the "crazy gun nuts" the extreme sheep think we are. Thank you for that.

I would do what I did with Best Buy and what Pro2A did with Lowes, and countless others here did with other businesses. Call corporate HQ, speak to a supervisor, and get it straightened out. MAKE SURE they have something coming down the chain of command to the lady who kicked you out of the bank, and then go back again to speak with her, making sure everyone's ducks are in a row.

Then demand a 100" flat screen high-def apology television. ;)
---------

On a similar note, we have legal OC here in banks, but not CC. I have been in my bank OCing I dunno how many times since April. Yesterday, I mentioned to one of the tellers (we're all very friendly here, I adopted a dog to the branch manager, everyone knows everyone's kids' first names...small town, etc.) about my upcoming NRA instructor training, and she said "oh, I didn't realize you were serious when you said you went shooting. You don't seem like a violent person." We'll chat about that later, but anyhow, she asked about where I keep my gun, and I pointed to my hip.

She freaked out and goes "Oh my! Can you DO that? Can you walk around like that? Are you allowed to be in here like that?" The manager beat me to it and explained the OC/CC law about banks here, trying hard the whole time not to laugh at her. She said "if it were anyone but you, Bunny, I would have totally freaked out! But actually, it seems pretty safe with you in here, now that I think about it." Hey, she may be coming around!

Then she said "why did you bring that in here today?" I told her I always have it on me. She goes "Oh, that was your GUN? I thought it was your CELL PHONE!"

Yes, my tactical 9mm cell phone! LOL.

Point is, I think a lot of bank employees may be very ignorant of the laws indeed, and just need to be educated. I'm sorry this one was so rude instead of comical though. Call HQ and take care of it.
 
#13 ·
Doesn't sound to me as though the bank or the staffer had a no-guns policy. Sounds to me, though, like the person mistakenly believed you were committing a crime by daring to carry in a bank, any bank.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the kind words. I figured it was the best course of action. Mostly, I did not want to the cops showing up at my door later responding to the MWAG call earlier. Last thing I want is to loose my license to carry.

I suppose I should simply better conceal...but that negates the reason I carry. My Beretta is a deterrent. I don't want to be hastled by some punk in the parking lot while carrying a deposit to the bank.

The chief suggested a either conceal it better or simply secure it in my vehicle. I'm drafting a letter to TD Bank corporate tomorrow but feel it will probably be lost and will receive a general customer service response.

In the short term, I have to return to that branch for deposits. We will consider switching banks if we do not receive a satisfactory response.

I wish she had not made such a big deal about it. Even the teller I was working with whispered "I'm sorry" a couple of times... just out of earshot of her boss.

Your best buy story was enlightening. I hope I have similiar success.
 
#24 ·
The chief suggested a either conceal it better or simply secure it in my vehicle. I'm drafting a letter to TD Bank corporate tomorrow but feel it will probably be lost and will receive a general customer service response.
The way to avoid this particular problem is to address the letter to the CEO, and then send it certified mail, return receipt requested. This means that, on the receiving end, someone will have to sign for the item, and you can prove it was delivered. The implication on the receiving end is that this is some legal document.

Most companies of any size, and certainly any the size of TD Bank, will have a policy that such email gets entered in a log, and the disposition of the item gets logged, so that they can track what arrived when and how it was dealt with.

It's unlikely that the CEO will even see your mail. It will be delegated to some guy whose job it is to handle unusual stuff and make it go away so the CEO isn't bothered by it. But that person will probably be directly accountable to the CEO, and thus will not be some line level customer service person.
 
#15 ·
LOL i love storys likethis i hope that you get it worked out. I loe how people freak out of such a small thing. i wasin wells fargo a few days ago and did not have an issue at all. as a matter of fact everytime i OC i have not had a problem. I did get alook the other day in a busy gas station, but who cares they will get over it and have probably allready forgotten about it.
 
#16 ·
The East is so different from the West. Before I had a vault, I used to keep several class III guns in a bank safety deposit box. I'd go get them when I wanted to shoot and then take them back. Bank personnel got to know me so well, that upon seeing me they would say "did you come for your guns"? or "going shooting today"? Never had a single complaint. One teller was heartbroken when on my last withdrawal I announced I had bought a safe. "Come back and see us anyway" she said. Yup, area makes a difference.
 
#17 ·
One thing I noticed is that you seemed to be in condition white,she was able to walk up behind you and had she been an armed robber etc.could have very possibly disarmed you,A gun doesn't do you much good if somebody gets the drop on you
 
#18 ·
The bank manager, Cecile Chase, tapped me on my back. She yelled out that I was not allowed to carry a gun into the bank. She also barked out that I was breaking federal law because (brining a gun into the bank).
She blew it when she invented that BS line about you violating Federal law. To me, inventing non-existent laws casts strong doubt upon her ability to manage even a small-town branch bank.
 
#25 ·
Well to be fair, she was having a conversation with him concerning the legality of him having a weapon in the bank. From the story presented, she never asked him to leave. :rofl:
 
#22 ·
A listing of TD Bank corporate officers

TD Bank Financial Group - Corporate Information - Executive Profiles

a list of media relations people

TD Bank Financial Group - Media Relations Contacts

Shareholder relations

TD Shareholder Relations
TD Tower, 12th Floor
66 Wellington Street West
Toronto, ON M5K 1A2
Telephone: (416) 944-6367

Notice that corp headquarters is in Canada. I am not overly hopeful as to the response.

Having said that, often the best way to get someone IMPORTANT on the line is to go through investor relations. Get someone over there, not neccessarily the top Investor relations person but someone further down. Start out by saying, you know they are not the correct person to talk to but you would greatly appreciate her help in getting to someone of authority for a problem that you encountered with a transaction at one of their banks. Be direct, but be vague. If they try to bump you over to the regular 1800 customer service line, just plainly state that the problem is significantly beyond their pay grade and leave the sentence hang.

It may take a few calls. Note the person's name who answers and on each call ask for them by name and keep them bumping you up the food chain. Each time you go up the food chain, make a verbal note of who you are talking to as you write the information down and confirm name, title and direct phone number.

I did this once with a rental car issue where my GF at the time was left without a car in a foreign country due to a clerk's lack of concern. Within 2 hours, she had her complete vacation's car rental comped and she was upgraded to the car of her choice. But it took me 2 hours of food chain climbing, starting with investor relations.

It may have helped that I was a stock broker then, but I think going through the Investor relations side, those people are not hardened and trained to deflect. It also helps if you have a name or 3 to drop, such as would someone in

Bharat Masrani
Group Head, U.S. Personal and Commercial Banking,
TD Bank Financial Group
and President & CEO, TD Bank, N.A.

office be the appropriate place to go?

I ended up with a SR VP of N. American Operations on the line. Problem fixed and he (personally) called me back to follow up the day after she returned her car.
 
#27 ·
Just to play the devil's advocate, I'd say they are not refusing access, just placing a term on access (just like "no shoes, no service").

As for "rights", read your contract with the bank. This is a private agreement, not the government.

I'm all for urging businesses to understand people would choose to take their security seriously are good customers, but we need to be careful we keep the issues straight.

-john
 
#28 ·
The bank manager, Cecile Chase, tapped me on my back. I was a little shocked that she had crept up behind me but was not too alarmed. She yelled out that I was not allowed to carry a gun into the bank. She also barked out that I was breaking federal law because (brining a gun into the bank). I calmly introduced myself formally and explained I was making large cash deposits. I explained the gun was for my safety and I was no different than armed couriers in this state. She again reiterated that I was breaking the law and said the next time I would be arrested. I again informed her that I was licensed to carry in this and many other states and frequently carry into her bank and other banks in the area. She was unphased and said the police had been called. I thanked her for her time and asked for her business card, which she provided, when I left.

don't you just love it when uneducated morons, totally ignorant of the law, try and tell you what the law is? i had a bank manager pull this crap on me over a year ago. i'd been a customer of the bank for over 10 years, had carried openly frequently, and was friendly with the original manager. this new one was a total tool. she tried that "federal law" crap, too. a week later, after speaking with the bank president, they put signs on all the branches, barring anyone from carrying. i withdrew all my money promptly, as did all of my family members, and friends, who had accounts there. that's about 20+ people.
 
#30 ·
My e-mail to the bank manager below.

Cecile M. Chase
Vice President - Banking Center Manager

Ma'am,

I respectfully request that you update your knowledge of handgun laws for your state. You tried to instigate an argument with a gentleman that was making a deposit of a large sum of money in your bank because he was armed. He was carrying his firearm in accordance with state and federal law, and carrying for self defense in case of a robbery due to the large sum of money previously mentioned.

It is not only his right as a law abiding citizen to carry a firearm for protection, it is also his responsibility to protect that which he was carrying.

Thank you for your time.
 
#31 ·
I live in PA and OC to the bank where I do business every day. I think the bank manager likes the fact that I carry. They have been robbed before and having a customer (who they know and trust) carrying in the bank is a good deterent. There was a customer once that made a comment to one of the bank officers and he just said to her..."No, he's ok, he's one of us!" I though that was cool. :congrats:
 
#32 ·
TD bank is a Canadian bank.
Cecile may be Canadian.

If she is, she would be more comfortable on the other side of the border, where the only defense she will have is her cell phone.
Hey I am Canadian, and that is so true. Cell phone if you can get a signal. I know Canada sucks. You have little Canada's in the US like NY, NJ,... I am willing to be adopted by any loving American family, I prefer VT or Alaska. LOL
 
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