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is a .380 enough

39K views 261 replies 110 participants last post by  KSDeputy 
#1 ·
Now before anyone says its shot placement or whatever Ive already given that some thought. I guess what my question is is if you work at a job where its not a real big deal if I print would you be looking for something bigger mostly for work or would you just stay with the edc p3at in pocket holster. Thinking about the Kimber tactical pro but still have not made up my mind. I had a glock 27 and didnt care for the carry of it (love Glocks thou) would the kimber carry better because it is thinner. Also our prime objective is to stop the threat which does not necesarilly mean the biggest hole we can. Ive got a hard time believing the .380 would not do that. Anyway just looking for input
 
#2 ·
Not much for stoping power, but a .380 will make a BG stop what he is trying to do to you, if he's a big dude, on drugs, multiple BG's or just determined to hurt you then I wold not use it. Think of it this way, what calaber hand gun is worth your, wife and/or kis life, answer and find the gun that best fits your needs.
 
#3 ·
do a search. you will see this has been around the block many times here. on the week ends i carry a 380 kel tec in my back pocket as the "bug" to my duty "bug", which turns into primary. i do not feel under gun with it. i know i will not be in a tv gun fight where i will need a "big" blaster and thousands of rounds.
 
#13 ·
380

do a search. you will see this has been around the block many times here. on the week ends i carry a 380 kel tec in my back pocket as the "bug" to my duty "bug", which turns into primary. i do not feel under gun with it. i know i will not be in a tv gun fight where i will need a "big" blaster and thousands of rounds.
That is also MY thought on the subject.
If you feel that the 380 is inferior after all is said, look at the pocket size 9s like the Kel-tec PF9 or the new taurus equivalent. Seems now days eveyone is making pocket size 380s and 9s.
However, before you decide, go to a gun shop whic has a range and "try before you buy". A 9 which weighs 15 oz has to have a kick to it. Law of physics.....

POGO: good post. Goes along with the quote above.
I have one addenda: "You have to convince the attacker that You have a gun, and that you will use it."
 
#4 ·
Are you sure you want to get this started?:boese51: I personally want nothing smaller on me than a 9mm. That said Im looking for a Ruger LCP as a backup and summer time shorts pistola.:comeandgetsome:
 
#5 ·
I just got a LCP and am using it as a primary right now. I just had back surgery 12/22 and can't carry anything heavier. Once I'm healed and can carry my regular carry piece, the LCP will be regulated to BUG duty or a hot weather shorts, pocket carry gun...
 
#54 ·
^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^

I would say Just barely for all intents and purposes.

Then throw in,

Thick winter coats
Poor shot placement, Ie; BG moving around
You in a compromised situation
Multiple assailants
BG on mind/mood altering drugs/alcohol
Shall I keep going!!????????????



Being in politics is like being a football coach; you have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's important." - Eugene McCarthy
 
#8 ·
Somebody heat up the air popper please, I'm on a diet but I still want some...

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I'm in a different situation from some posters, so if a .380 is all you can carry, go for it. Me, I'm not limited by how I have to dress, or by how big or small my edc needs to be, so I'd not carry one except as a BUG. I prefer compact size weapons as a minimum, and generally have always preferred full sized.

They're not for me, but they do serve their purpose.
 
#9 ·
In a WW parking lot, with a thug who pulls a knife, the P-3AT is going to discourage a continued threat. So if that's all you can easily hide in a pocket, so be it...it beats not being armed.:22a:

I prefer having my Glock-36 tucked against my kidney, but I have at times, taken my P-3AT to the store and back.:yup:
 
#11 ·
Sometimes...

Is a .380 enough to defend yourself?

At Florida State University there is a criminologist named Gary Kleck who has done research on the question of defensive gun use by honest citizens. Here is a link to an interview in which he discusses his findings:

Kleck interview link

Kleck cites a lot of results, but one in particular interests me. He said that he estimates that in 86% of the cases the gun was not fired at the attacker. The threat of the gun, either verbal warning "I have a gun" showing the gun, or firing the gun for effect, was enough to repel the attack.

So I conclude that in 86% of the cases the caliber of the gun didn't matter. The important thing was just to have the gun and be able to convince the attacker that you did have it. In the 14% of cases where the defender fired the gun at the attacker, the attacker was only hit (wounded or killed) in 8% of the cases. So the defender missed in 6% of the cases, and that repelled the attack.

The bottom line for me is that your caliber choice will only be a factor in 8% of the cases where you fire the gun at the attacker and hit him. 92% of the time it won't matter which caliber you have, and a .380 should be just as good a deterrent as a .44 magnum.

So if all you can carry is a .380, it is a whole lot better than nothing.
 
#15 ·
I carry a .380 with Hornady CD ammo a lot. I do carry my 9mm some but most of the time, it's the .380 and I love it.

I asked a South Carolina SLED agent the same question above about a .380 before I bought mine and he told me that most all self defense confrontations take place within 3 yards and no more than 3 shots. He did not hesitate in recommending the .380 for self defense and even stated that his wife and son both carry one.
 
#17 ·
I never leave the house with less than a .38 snub with +P's and 95% of the time have my H&K P7 with an extra mag on. If the .380 is what you are counting to take down someone down and stop them with, go for it. I personally would not rely my and my families lives on one.

JMO
 
#18 ·
I wonder what all the research is from the contries that have LEO and military carry the 9X18, it is ballistically about the same as a 380.
 
#20 ·
All this talk on calibers gets a bit silly when you think about it.

1. Some people think a 120mm artillery round isn't big enough.
2. Some think anything over 9mm is too difficult to handle.
3. Why would you trust a .380 as a backup, but not as your EDC? If you're down to your BU, then BG must be right on your butt by then, and you need nothing less than the 120mm round. (See No. 1.)
4. Have your buddy shoot you with a .380 and then see if you want a second round. I doubt it, and I doubt most BGs would either.
5. Anything is better than nothing.
6. The object isn't to blow the BG into smithereens, but to stop the threat of harm--period. If a BB gun does that, it's big enough.

Carry whatever makes you comfortable and what you can handle reliably and accurately. 10 rounds of .380 whizzing past your ear is probably a lot more scary than one round of .45 super-duper, thermonuclear, ear-shattering BG Plasterer.

I had a .41 Magnum that I loved to shoot, and it was very accurate, but I'd hardly consider it as a useful carry gun. Now, a .45 auto suits me fine. I trust it. But if all I had was a .380, it would be my EDC.

Next subject--please.
 
#21 ·
The issue with .380 is penetration depth. The solution is easy - use FMJ bullets, preferably a flat-point. The flat-point has more drag than a round-nose, and may do a bit more damage. It will also lower the probability of overpenetration, though that isn't much of an issue with .380 with a COM hit.

I alternate Hornady Critical Defense (~10" penetration) with FMJ-FP in our LCPs.

Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. With the right load, .380 can do the job nicely.
 
#22 ·
There are few (if any?) extended gun battles involving civilians and BGs. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, caliber might count only 8% of the time.

So as a matter of odds, my attitude is carry what I am comfortable with and can shoot very rapidly while holding on target. In my case it is a .380. It could also be 38 sp. if I bought one. It could be a G 19 or G26 if I liked them--but I find myself mostly limited to pocket carry and for pocket carry the .380 and 38 sp seem most reasonable.

Now, we need to all remember a thread here about a year ago where a fellow got into a protracted gun battle on the street in front of his house with no less than a crazed shotgun wielder. It took multiple hits with a .45 to stop the attack. Who knows, he might have lost with a lesser caliber and lesser mag. capacity, or he might have put one right between the eyes with the control advantage.

I'd love to carry my .40 and can manage to stuff it in a pocket (believe it or not a modified Uncle Mikes IWB #1). But, I can't fire it with the control and speed I can bring to things with my Mustang, or with a 38.

I haven't looked at the compact 9s but see no real advantage to 9 over .380 at belly range--or even at 9 feet. These are the distances I envision something happening. Further out and I'll be running, hiding, praying, cursing.

A gun battle on the street against the crazed guy with the shotgun, though a possibility, has long long odds against it.
 
#24 ·
.380 has good stopping power if you're close enough. The main problem with this round is it loses its energy faster than a higher caliber, in other words its fine within 7-10 yards, but outside of that it you run a chance of it not penetrating fully or possible not at all if the person is layered up and at a distance.
 
#25 ·
I own a Keltec P3at and don't feel under gunned at all. I also own a Glock 19, a govt model, and a Ruger service six. The keltec has the advantage of being highly portable and concealable. Heck I have trouble remembering its not my wallet when I stick it in my back pocket. I can reliably hit a man sized target at 50 feet with it. If I have to shoot at them I want to do it from behind cover while retreating.
 
#26 ·
Easy. Carry the 380 while your at work, then carry something larger when your out with your family. You can also keep a larger gun locked up in your car in case you run into trouble while going to and from work. Its hard for some people to carry anything but a pocket gun at work. 380 pocket at work....belt holster larger caliber the rest of the time.....and, 12 gage pump at home :comeandgetsome:
 
#27 ·
By Dept. mandate I have to carry at least a .38 special for a backup. My backup is a 9mm and my primary is a .45. Just about all of the Police Dept's in this county have the same guidelines.

Would anyone care to know why?

For those that do, I'll explain and then leave it up to your own judgment.

If you do have to shoot someone, chances are they will not be in a proper state of mind. They may be on drugs, they may be drunk, they may be mad at the whole world and suicidal or maybe even all of the above. If they are on drugs, they wont feel much in the way of pain, and they may persist until they bleed out. They might run away after the first shot is fired, but they may not.

In lots of cases, its up to the Police to do the dirty work. Someone calls 911 because a drunk crazy is walking around yelling and screaming and he is carrying a gun. Most people are smart enough to hid and let the cops handle it.

Maybe the guy has just found his girlfriend in the sack with his best friend, gotten himself drunk, killed them both and now he just wants to die and he doesn't care how and he lives in your apartment. You are walking up the stairs while he is walking down. He is a big guy, a biker type and he has tattoos all over him. He's never been the type to back down to anyone and he thinks you are in the way.

As Sixto says, the .380 will "probably" stop him. For me, "probably" ain't good enough.

You have to consider the absolute worst case scenario that you might be involved in and it could happen in seconds. One thing that everyone has in common when being interviewed in guns fights or knife fights or even ball bat or broken bottle fights is that they can not believe how fast things happened.

Its a fact that people are for the most part lazy. They want to carry itty bitty guns and they want to believe that they are as protected as anyone else. No one really want to shoots someone, so they sooth their conscience by carrying a gun that is so easy to carry that it is hardly noticeable. Most people choose a gun, not for its effectiveness in a fight, but for ease of carry.

To my way of thinking that is completely wrong. We should carry a gun that should be as effective as possible because that fact that you may have to shoot a person means that he probably isn't in the proper state of mind, because if he was, you wouldn't have to shoot him would you?

Since a handgun is a compromise anyway, why pick a small caliber?

So this guy is drunk and has a big Bowie knife and he's already cut two people. He's coming toward you, and doing the brave thing, you grab your wife, step in front of her and pull your .380.

Sure it might work.

But it might not. And if it fails to stop, then what?

Whats next?

Since a .45 has been known not to stop immediately why would we think a.380 might?

You owe it to yourself and to your loved ones to carry an effective caliber. Nowadays there is not really a reason to carry a .380 because in the last few years they have made 9MMs that are about the same size...

and thats all I've got to say about that.
 
#37 ·
By Dept. mandate I have to carry at least a .38 special for a backup. My backup is a 9mm and my primary is a .45. Just about all of the Police Dept's in this county have the same guidelines.
:congrats:

No doubt the Depts are looking to protect their own. I feel there's a big difference between the LEOs who knowingly and intentionally places themselves in harm's way versus the private individuals who, may, in their lifetime if ever, find themselves in a situation where they need to use deadly force.

The LEOs should expect to find themselves in that situation and be prepared for it on a daily basis. It's their job to intervene with the BGs.

The private individual has a duty to avoid those situations as much as possible, resorting to force only when no other avenue of avoidance is available. To assume that one can enter into a threatening situation because "I have the right to protect myself" and carry a weapon is paramount to looking for trouble. I don't go to an ATM at 1:00 am, armed or not. That's asking for trouble.

Private individuals rarely get into drawn-out shootouts, engaging drugged-up, spaced-out criminals in a desperate fire fight, while the LEOs can reasonably expect, by the nature of the job, to find themselves in that position, and I'm sure the Depts, in wanting to protect their own, want their officers to have sufficient back up protection.

The private individuals should carry what ever make, model, and caliber they consider sufficient as to control, power, concealment, and/or any other issue that affects their choice.

Any back up should be sufficient, but why are you in the position of having to resort to a back up in the first place? Did the "I have a gun" attitude override the "Maybe I shouldn't go there" common sense?
 
#28 ·
The .380 was designed by none other than the illustrious John Browning, father of the 1911, the M2 .50cal, the BAR, the Winchester 1894, and of course, the Browning Hi-Power. How bad can it be?

Well, he also developed the .25 and .32ACP cartridges. Okay, but he did the .45ACP, too. The point?

The .380 was used widely among European police and US state dept and intelligence personnel from the late 1920s through the end of the Cold War.

As the numbers and it's name should indicate to you, for all intents and purposes, it's the same diameter as a 9mm or .38

But it's shorter. Both the bullet and the case, meaning less weight and less velocity. It's not going to win any competitions at 50 yds against a .45, and it's not going to take down a grizzly bear. But what's a .380 pistol for?

Defensive carry. Where do most defensive shootings occur? At very close range.

Just remember this maxim:
Carry the largest caliber pistol you can accurately fire.
And, of course the corollary:
The gun you carry is better than the one you leave at home.

A .22 is better than nothing. I've seen people killed with .25s, read about people killed with .22LR, and seen people survive being nearly cut in half with multiple .30cal rifle rounds. We live in a weird world.

I never heard anyone say, "Well, he shot me in the face/heart/groin,etc, but it was ONLY a .380."
 
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