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A Quick Question on Sheep

8K views 105 replies 58 participants last post by  hamlet 
#1 ·
So my wife and I were talking about :sheep: and sheepdogs or whatever you want to call those who carry a weapon to protect themselves and/or family.... otherwise known as "US." Anyway, she asked me a question that I found myself at a loss with, "Is there anything between Sheeple and Sheepdogs?"

I know where she was going with this, she is anti-gun. VERY anti-gun. She tolerates me carrying a weapon and being an instructor only because she does recognize the threat that people can pose. She carrys (sometimes) pepper spray and that is only because I didnt let her leave the house without it! I ask if she has is on her now when she goes out, her normal response is "sometimes." ....woman!.....

Anyway, she knows the dangers, refuses to carry or get her permit for that fact, "sometimes" carrys pepper spray, but most of the time thinks nothing will ever happen to us/her where she will need protection. She thinks that "sheeple" are the totally oblivious ones in the world and she is not that. But she is not a "sheepdog" either. She just wants to know where she might fall in.

What do you guys/gals think on the subject? I dont know, and I really dont care. She does, but I dont. She REALLY dont like it when I call her a :sheep:!! I think she wants something else.

Mods: I am not sure if this place is the right area for this topic. Please move if its not! Thanks!!
 
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#2 ·
Just for the purpose of discussion:

I'm familiar with the term 'sheepdog' in 3 contexts: a) canines, b) Internet gun forums, and c) Dave Grossman, Lt. Col. and author.

According to Grossman, who has done psychological research into fighting, war, and killing, real 'sheepdogs' are very rare.

And most definitely anyone who legally carries a gun is not one. This one I know.

If you truly are a sheepdog, then perhaps only you know.

(By 'you' here Avenger, I am not speaking of you personally.)

Sorry that this causes discord in your marriage tho Avenger. I hope she never has to realize just how fortunate she is to have your protection.
 
#3 ·
Shoot.....my wife is anti gun..........

I don't use the sheep/sheepdog terminology.

Though she is anti gun, she has the same "safer" feeling that I have, because I do carry.

I understand her point of veiw...........she understands mine.

I'd say sure....there is an in between......maybe shee is it....I sure would not get away with calling her a sheep.
 
#5 ·
"wannabe" sheep dogs who just haven't made up their mind to take the step.
 
#10 ·
Oh... She knows its all fun and games.

One thing I forgot to mention is the fact that I am religious and she is Atheist. She calls me a sheep for following religion (jokingly) and I call her a sheep for obvious reasons. We are totally opposites and love each other to hells end. Opposites attract right? Thats what we always say! Been married 5 years! and still going strong!

This thread is just fun, no harm and no foul.
 
#8 ·
If you have children, remind her that it's her job to protect them when you're not around. She can let herself become a victim, but the kids are innocent and need a vigilant, protective eye.
 
#9 ·
Interesting...is anyone who doesnt carry a gun a sheep? Or who doesnt carry pepper spray, knife, etc? (I dont think that's what's being said here in the thread, but ya never know)

I see a big difference being responsible for your own safety (as much as possible...which I respectfully leave up to each individual)...and not doing so. Choice of weapons isnt involved (IMO)
 
#75 ·
The answer is no, what makes a sheep is being in denial that evil exists, the belief that a sign saying an area is a "gun free zone" will make them safe.
 
#11 ·
Wow Avenger! Those are some odds! How long have you been married? You could really give hope to lots of folks.
 
#12 ·
"Is there anything between Sheeple and Sheepdogs?"

She thinks that "sheeple" are the totally oblivious ones in the world and she is not that. But she is not a "sheepdog" either. She just wants to know where she might fall in.
Yes, and I happen to agree with your wife.
Regardless of what many people as to a majority think or like to think of themself I am personally convinced that the vast majority of people who are shall we say 'aware' (greater than condition white...And this includes very many _off duty_ LEOs too!) are actually just like her.
Some place in the middle further than the 40 but not all that far past the 50 yd. line.

These people are as related to the corny analogy that just won't die; Poodles. Standard poodles to be exact.

A type of terrier that when the stars align just right, or rather terribly, then may but not always will spring into action.
Contrary to popular assumption standard poodles are fierce 'terriers'.
It's silly humans who dress them up to look like canine clowns.

Many people are to my view poodles, a sub-set further are Bouvier and then a large minority of the living in white types are Golden Retrievers.

I do not believe there are any true sheep but children while the wolves they live and walk among us not as dogs but as versions of us...Suffering from maladies such as mange, canine distemper, rabies and intestinal maladies including those who are and simply were born crazy in the head to start.

The Devil is as 'wolf' and The Lord is our shepherd as walking silently among but beyond the prescience of His precious lambs and dogs.

- Janq
 
#13 ·
Sheep dog is a term used by people who posses both a concealed carry permit and delusions of granduer and who beleive that their permit came W/ a bat cape.

I am not a sheep dog
 
#17 ·
I like it!

I personally think I fall somewhere in between. In my idea of a perfect world, nobody would need or have handguns. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. I suppose we can adapt or risk the consequences. That's where I'm at. It may not make sense, but I'm neither pro or anti-gun -- it's bothersome that we've been conditioned to be to-the-wall for or against something. Being completely closed-minded about others' desire to protect him/herself and family is as ludicrous as those who attain a permit, carry 6 guns, 3 knives, pepper spray and a tin foil hat on their person at all times, all the while jamming their ideals down the throats of those who don't share their views. I can tell you that both extreme examples do a pretty good job of pushing me away from their respective agendas when encountering them.

I've always supported those who feel it necessary to arm themselves for protection of their family... I've now done so myself. I also respect people who prefer to live on blind faith or are otherwise "against" the idea. We often tout the coveted 2A, but we forget the fundamental human rights of freedom of thought and expression.

Here's hoping the "sheep" never need to have it and the "sheep dog" never needs to use it. That's about all there is to say.
 
#14 ·
"Is there anything between Sheeple and Sheepdogs?"

She thinks that "sheeple" are the totally oblivious ones in the world and she is not that. But she is not a "sheepdog" either. She just wants to know where she might fall in.
She's in denial. And it could get her killed and your family killed, if scat hits the whirligig.

While there are certainly no absolute definitions to any of this, people in denial are sheep. That pretty much includes folks like her, who think it won't happen to them.

It's not a matter of utterly, entirely, or all-encompassing blindness. There are certainly gradations of coloring, here. But it's about the inability to see the problem. It's about simply not understanding how wishful thinking is insufficient under an upraised knife. "Sometimes" does not cut it. "Sometimes" is not good enough.

"Sheep" or "Sheeple." The way I view it is, these are the ones who will be preyed upon unwittingly, or who will not have anything they can do about it due to voluntary blindness and refusal to understand that wishful thinking isn't a sufficient defense.

She REALLY dont like it when I call her a sheep!! I think she wants something else.
She shouldn't like it. It's a baaa-aa-aaad place to be. :sheep:

So, don't call her that. But sheep/sheeple she remains.
 
#15 ·
You guys got it all wrong. A sheep dog is a dog the controls a flock of sheep, and in the movie Babe, a pig won the sheep herding competition .
Law abiding citizens who carry guns are well trained if they know what's good for them,and carry to preserve live and limb. Police are never there when you need them,so you got to fend for yourself. So train,train,and train some more,then train.!!!!
 
#16 ·
10 out of every 10 sheep interviewed said that they were not sheep! :blink:

Come on folks, get over the "sheepdog" semantics! SHEESH! :headbutt:
 
#100 ·
10 out of every 10 sheep interviewed said that they were not sheep! :blink:

Come on folks, get over the "sheepdog" semantics! SHEESH! :headbutt:
:hand10: Amen!


I don't lift my leg to wee, but I'll darn sure bite if you try to take what's mine, or hurt someone close to me. Does that make me a sheepdog. Not in my book, am I offended by the analogy, again no. The sheepdog analogy is just a term that's been worn out over the internet by any and everyone.
 
#19 ·
In context to you question, I would say that if she carries herself in a code that is a few steps up from white, than she isn't a sheep(gun or no gun).
I've been using to term sheep for over half my life, for anyone that does what everyone else does without thinking about why they are doing it.
I can't think of anytime I've said that to the sheep, I usually just tell myself that.
Sheep;BG's;road-hugs;PC's;code-red's, they're just like negitive nick name phrases I use to alert myself so as not to get caught up in the flock/herd/etc.
Kind of like what to say when you at the point of pulling your gun, I want something short and to the point, like "STOP"(then draw and shot if they keep coming). I don't want to waste my micro-sec's in a long sentences, same with driving, I'll just tell myself "Pack" and try to keep myself between two pacts instead of joining one.
But if we run around telling people the same things we tell ourselves, they'll put us in a nuthouse... Or add us to their list of people they don't like any more...
 
#20 ·
Seriously, my wife was an anti until the day she got cornered by someone who scared her good . When she realized that she couldn't have defended herself had the woman decided to push the issue she changed her mind.

That really is what it takes for some people.
 
#21 ·
Orignally posted by ccw9mm More or less ...

Sheep: It'll cannot happen to me, thus I need not consider it.


Sheepdog: It can happen, thus I will actively take precautions for protecting me and mine. Merely refusing to consider it simply isn't sufficient to be able to defend against crime.


Note: Falling back to the "it cannot happen" mentality at any time relegates one to "sheep" thinking again.


Wolf: You are prey, and I'm here to eat you, legal, moral and upstanding guidelines be damned.

That's pretty much it. The category either fits or not. Change that, or not. It's up to you (in the generic sense).

You probably aren't. You will need to decide.
Why is it that when ever I read one of these catagorizations I find myself identifying much more W/ the wolf?

Originally posted by ccw9mmBut whatever you do, please leave the denigrating claims and poor assumptions at the door, which serve no purpose other than to generate ill will.
W/ all due respect there are a lot of people out there who agree W/ my assesment
 
#22 ·
In the spirit of keeping it fun, I think Ostrich fits best (someone said it earlier.)

As for me, I don't know if I'm a sheep dog or not. What I do know is a valuable tool when I see it. That's what guns are to me, a valuable tool that the constitution ensures I get to own. It's got a specific purpose, that I hope I never need it for, but I'd rather have the right tool at hand when I need it.:22a:
 
#23 ·
Personally, I hate the term.

I would much rather be called "paranoid, old, armed maniac" than a Sheepdog. I would prefer to refer to myself simply as a human being enlightened to the potential of evil in the world.

I once made a reference to people who carry as watchmen in a tower who have a different perspective on the world than those in the courtyard. We can see the potential storms coming and, with a seasoned eye, even predict certain activities. The people in the courtyard who have never visited the watchtower don't have our perspective and some don't want it.

Sometimes, on their first trip up to the watchtower they don't see what we see and it takes training and experience to interpret the storm clouds appropriately.

Is there a level between the "sheep" and the "sheepdog"? ABSOLUTELY. There are MANY levels between the two they just haven't been given clever names yet.
 
#29 ·
This says it all, and it hits home with my own belief. Back when I was a LEO, I was aware of my surroundings and suspicious of everything and everyone. Over time, those skills faded as I lived a complacent life style. Then one day I was reminded I wasn’t immune to what I would typically see in the news. By circumstance, I managed to prevail and my so-called paranoia has returned.

Generically speaking, those who believe the universe has no intrinsic value are more likely to accept a consequence of their own peril. We may protect them to the best of our ability but free agency is our right, and to each their own.
 
#25 ·
I don't even like the term watchmen because it carries a connotation that we're sentries that keep watch over the city.

No my Yob.

How 'bout we use the term DGI (Don't Get It) to describe those that refuse to acknowledge that we live in a dangerous world.

BTW Avenger, go to any gun forum and do a search of the term "sheep dog" and you will see everything from threads stating that a CHP makes you a defacto cop to threads that suggest we all buy "sheepdog pins" and use them as a way to identify ourselves to other permit holders.

On many fora the term is viewed W/the same contempt as "Mall Ninja"
 
#26 ·
If she doesn't like sheep, try GOAT. Goats are sort of akin to sheep, but not quite as naive and have some degree of ability to defend themself. Start calling her a goat and let us know how that turns out for ya...:rofl:
 
#30 ·
Boy has this thread been hijacked. Seriously, if you want to begin the whole argument over terminology for the umpeenth time, START YOUR OWN THREAD. Then those of us who are not bent out of shape over terms can ignore it. Why is it that the same people want to argue the same tired point over and over again? I like DC because it's cordial and avoids this bickering stuff...so knock it off already. Sigh...

To the OP: Hey, your wife is cognizant of the dangers out there. That's a good thing. I would praise her for her awareness of her surroundings and encourage her to take that OC out with her when you can. It's better than nothing.

If I were you I would focus on calling her "sweetheart," "dear," "honey" or other some such term of endearment rather than finding a less derogatory term than "sheep." I would call her "your wife who does not carry a gun." My wife knows there is danger, and carries OC spray while running. I can't get her to get her permit and carry, but there is no way I am going to frustrate her or denigrate her by calling her names. And I suppose I try to extend the same courtesy to other friends and family as well as strangers.
 
#32 ·
+ 1000 I hate the term "sheep" or "sheepdog" in relation to those who don't carry and those who do. I have friends who shoot regularly for recreation and hunting, but do not carry. Many of them can shoot better than many of us who carry, but they choose not to carry. One of them has a silver star for his actions while in Vietnam. He most certainly is not a "sheep". That is their choice and I support their choice, just as they supprt mine. They are not sheep and I am not a sheepdog. I don't think we benefit ourselves at all by using derogatory terms to those who choose not to carry and personally feel it is just as bad for us to do that as it is for them to call us gun fanatics or gun nuts because we choose to carry.
 
#31 ·
I saw there is nothing in-between sheep and sheepdog. Either you take charge and ownership of your safety or you don’t.

On a side note: my wife was anti-gun. After we got a divorce and she had to live by her self and listen to the bumps in the night alone she became a gun owner.
 
#34 ·
Originaly posted by MinistrmalicSeriously, if you want to begin the whole argument over terminology for the umpeenth time, START YOUR OWN THREAD.
From the OP So my wife and I were talking about and sheepdogs or whatever you want to call those who carry a weapon to protect themselves and/or family.... otherwise known as "US." Anyway, she asked me a question that I found myself at a loss with, "Is there anything between Sheeple and Sheepdogs?"
Looks to me like this thread is dead nuts on track
 
#35 ·
Has she heard Dr Gratia's harrowing story? In her situation they were just innocent bystanders unable to fight back...not sheep or sheepdogs... just unarmed by state law. Have her watch the video below. If Dr. Gratia's story doesn't give your wife pause, nothing will.

Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!
 
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