Originally Posted by JerryM

Not worrying about crowded places. In a church the leadership has a responsibility to determine whether or not anyone who wants to can carry. Exactly. If your state law says no carrying in church unless approved by the leadership, then abide by the decision of the leadership or attend a church that allows you to carry regardless. ARE YOU IN A LEADERSHIP POSITION TO MAKE THAT DECISION?

There are no 2A rights in view as it does not pertain to what a church can do. Again, the law and the church leadership will dictate your right to carry.
No, I do not support unlimited RKBA, and do support that a church, among other organizations, can determine whether or not carrying a gun in the church is permitted. If you support the decision of your church leaders then you MUST support unlimited RTKBA, otherwise why support the decisions of the leadership, go with just a security team and have the leadership ban all others from carrying.

I dispute that accuracy is not important. How many here can make a killiing shot at 10 -20 yards when people are in panic and may even be running over you? Accuracy obviously takes precedence. Training to gain that accuracy is of utmost importance. You train to know what is an acceptable sight picture for a given shot and you shoot one shot at a time. I doubt very seriously if ANY responsible person will attempt a "killing shot" at 10-20 yards in a crowded church when people are in panic mode, when they realize their maximum capability is a 5-7 yard shot.

I have previously stated that I assist in teaching a CHL class. The requirements to qualify are 25 shots at a 12 x 18 inch target. Fifteen shots are at 3 yards, and 10 at 7 yards.
That kind of shooting does not indicate the level of skill needed in a crowded church. There are many individuals, that have trained to be decisive, aggressive, cool, and ruthless when confronted with a self defense situation. Just because your class only requires 25 shots to punch holes in a paper target, does not mean that others are not qualified to step up in a deadly life threatening situation. I hope, based on your concerns, that YOU are one of those that continues to train train train to master a higher level of confidence and ability to deal with these scenarios.

If your family were close to the action, would you want a person who can only place 70% of his shots in a 12X18 target at 3 and 7 yards to begin shooting toward your family? I sure would not.
It is one thing to defend against a direct attack on you in the street or in a business. It is another to have to shoot inside a crowded place like a church. My family knows, in a SHTF situation, to either seek cover and/or concealment or exit the area. Myself alone will determine whether or not a shot or shots need to be taken. I will depend on MY judgement and no one elses when it comes to defending my family.

Accordingly, I would make sure a person was more skilled than that, and that he could hit an 8 inch target 95% or even 100% at the maximum distance he would shoot. I believe "reality" will dictate the skill level of a responding individual and there will be no time to determine what that level is. That is why ALL of us should train to achieve a higher level of skill on a daily basis. Remember, there are four possible outcomes for you in an emergency: 1. Live Hero - one who has the skill to handle the problem and gets lucky! 2. Dead Hero - one who has the skill to handle the problem and is unlucky! 3. Dead Coward 4. Live Coward Those of us serious about self defense and why we carry our weapons will "default to the level of training which we have mastered". That is the reason all of us must continually train to better that 70% accuracy of which you speak, to better that 95% - !00% accuracy in hitting an 8 inch target. Are YOU continually training?

In a crowd it is not difficult for men to overpower a shooter, even at the expense of getting shot or cut themselves. Agreed, stopping the threat is the priority, with any means possible.

We have already argued the pastor's authority, and 2 A. I am hoping that you will objectively consider whether you want anyone who has passed a test to start shooting in church if a BG attacked in the church. It is of interest that some states have no shooting qualification requirement. I hope my above comments accurately convey my feelings regarding your concerns.

Regards,
Jerry